Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[princec]

I think we have it quite good here in the UK... there are barriers but mostly based on actual competency, which is a good thing and doubtless a significant factor in the ever-decreasing KSI stats here over the last 20 years, which are fairly hard to overlook. I'm fairly certain I'd be dead if I'd started on a 650. As it is I had a 550 when I was 17 and honestly I should never have been allowed

Financially, it costs far, far, far less to get a license to ride than a license to drive here, and the insurance is maybe a tenth of what you'd pay for a car too.

Back to the US though... the US is a strange sort of place where you are literally expected or even required to drive, everywhere. Nobody walks anywhere. It's weird af to anyone from Europe. So everywhere is likewise spread out in a huge sprawl, which means distances, so having highway capabilities is pretty important I should think, and 125s are basically utterly crap on fast roads with aggressive motorists everywhere. Or massive fun, depending on your outlook on life.

Cas

[caza]

Failed to excite?

Do you understand that it's more difficult to get a motorcycle license than one for an SUV?  And the SUV comes with a 30x less chance of death (for the driver)?

That's why very few pick up cycling or motorcycling.  It has a high barrier of entry and a stiff penalty if things go wrong.

-Crissa

It's almost exactly the same process to get a motorcycle license vs an SUV, the main difference is that minors can ride the motorcycle with a permit on their own, while in the SUV they need a licensed adult in the car with them at all times. When you have your permit, the license test for the SUV driver requires driving on-road with other drivers successfully, showing competency with both controlling the vehicle and the rules of the road. The motorcycle test is basically can you ride in circles in the parking lot.

Bikes are generally cheaper than cars and the insurance is vastly cheaper. The biggest barrier to entry is simply that most new drivers or riders are not familiar with a manual transmission, and to learn both manual and riding on 2 wheels at the same time can be intimidating.

I will grant that safety is a big part of the reason americans aren't big on motorcycles, but at the same time so many are happy to tap away on their phones while they drive, or get on a rental electric scooter drunk and crash at 20mph with no helmet, so our safety concerns aren't always based on actual logic and risk.

Back to the US though... the US is a strange sort of place where you are literally expected or even required to drive, everywhere. Nobody walks anywhere. It's weird af to anyone from Europe. So everywhere is likewise spread out in a huge sprawl, which means distances, so having highway capabilities is pretty important I should think, and 125s are basically utterly crap on fast roads with aggressive motorists everywhere. Or massive fun, depending on your outlook on life.

Cas

I think this is true in lots of areas of the US, but it's not true for everyone and is certainly not true in denser areas.
In big cities like SF or NY it's easy to find people that don't own cars, who rely on other forms of transportation to get to work or the store. And it's becoming more common.  Just read any one of thousands of articles about how millennials are "killing" the car industry. Owning a car is not what it used to be culturally, and more and more people are living without and seeking out other forms of transport. Add in that gig companies like uber have made it easier than ever to get a ride where you want when you want, and the desire to own a car, and to pay for insurance and maintenance, has plummeted for many.

Does that work in the boonies? No, of course not. But even though America is a vast rural land, the majority of our citizens are actually in dense urban areas, where getting around without cars is both possible and relatively popular.

[Crissa]

It's almost exactly the same process to get a motorcycle license vs an SUV, the main difference is that minors can ride the motorcycle with a permit on their own, while ...

No.  This varies by state.  And it's enforced unevenly.

In California, a minor can't ride any motorcycle without a permit and a driver's license.  You may be ticketed, even though it doesn't make sense.  A minor is only allowed certain size motorcycles as well, based upon age and permit type.  Each motorcycle permit level triggers a new fee and a new test.  Minors are supposed to pass a safety course the adults can opt out of to get their license.

Also, if you fail your endorsement test twice, they take can away your regular license, and will, if you don't have one, even if you passed that test (which you have to take every time you get an endorsement).  So you're running the risk of getting a test that asks you the difference between a trolley safety zone and a trolley zone or the weight of a child's seat requirements.

Might as well do the easy test and drive an SUV like everyone else.

-Crissa

[caza]

Wow you're right I didn't realize you need a drivers license to get a motorcycle permit as a minor. That's some garbage legislation for sure.

I can't find any reference to restricting the type or size of the bike though, only permit restrictions are passengers, highways, and night riding. All of which are the same for a car drivers permit.

[princec]

Do you really think it's garbage legislation? I mean, would you be OK with your 16yo kid just wandering over to a bike shop and trundling off at 70mph with a wave from the dealer?

Cas

[caza]

That's not what I'm suggesting at all. All I'm saying is that you should be able to get a motorcycle permit and license without having to first complete having a car license. If you're able to pass the written test and obtain a motorcycle endorsement, you should be able to get an M license regardless of if you've gone through the same process for a 4-wheeled vehicle.

[princec]

Oh I see, I didn't realise it was predicated on learning to drive an actual car first. That is a bit odd. Though it has often been said here that if everyone had to learn to ride before they got a car license there'd be a lot less accidents...

Cas

[Crissa]

You can just get an M, just since no one does it, no one recognizes it.

In California, you go through the class and pass the class.   At the DMV just don't check the C box, but you still take both tests and still have to do a practical, but it takes special scheduling. 

And your motorcycle permit is not valid (without a driver's license) on city streets without a licensed instructor as a passenger.  Just like a class C permit isn't valid without a licensed adult driver.

-Crissa

PS, we also have a class M2 license which is just for mopeds and minors are limited to it.  But it takes the same tests as the M1.

[Richard230]

When I started riding a Vespa in California, I needed to have a automobile license as there was no such thing as a motorcycle license.  But I couldn't afford a car, so I rode for a couple of years on a learner's permit, renewing it every 6 months, until the state finally developed a motorcycle license when they realized that the nicest people were riding all over the state on two wheels. That took them by surprise. And then it wasn't long before they also discovered that there was no engine size or power limitation for two-wheel vehicles to travel on the freeway. I used to run my scooter at 50 mph on the freeway and would draft semi-trucks to get pulled along at 55.  Those were the days. But they didn't last long. The state instituted a 15 hp minimum limit to enter a freeway. When that turned out to be hard to enforce, they changed the requirement to 150cc.