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[DonTom]

> But the Harley shops at least have a restroom--and a place to spend some money, such as 30K$ on a new Livewire. 

More likely to get offended that your non HD is there tempting real HD customers...

They don't seem to mind at all.

They really cannot say too much because I am in their system as a Harley owner and have done a lot of business in most of these shops. So if they do get offended, it's more their problem than mine.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[togo]

I bet they'd mind if you weren't

: - )

[NEW2elec]

Here's an article from Business about VW's new 150kw chargers in Germany. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-launch-network-ultra-fast-charging-points-133343648.html

[togo]

Here's an article from Business about VW's new 150kw chargers in Germany. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-launch-network-ultra-fast-charging-points-133343648.html

"About to".  VW Group is all about the promises, the press releases. Judge automakers by what they *do*.

[togo]

> I cringe when I hear about all the money being spent on chargers that I believe will be obsolete in a few years. 
> I hope people can be patient and except the "ok" stations we have now but not dump the billions that will be needed for a true mass adoption of EVs until the sub 15 minute charging works.

You are speaking of onboard charger bricks?  Heavy things you have to carry with you? Since with Fast DC charging, the charger is in the station, not the vehicle...

[ultrarnr]

I may be the exception here but I prefer fast chargers at Sheetz and WAWA fueling stations instead of shopping malls. Most of them are open 24/7. Malls aren't. Tough to find a restroom at a mall when they are closed, or to get something to drink.

[NEW2elec]

Ultrarnr I've seen some Sheetz stations going through Carolina but never heard of WAWA, had to look them up.

Togo no I was talking about charging stations not onboard chargers.  If you look to the future and you have sub 15 minute chargers that people flock to and now an old location X has a 20kw charger that is out of service why would the owner keep the old style station going.

I was just suggesting we wait for really great charging stations to set a standard for the infrastructure before companies and the government rush to set a standard that doesn't give the "masses" what they want or need for electric adoption.

Just like guys on here loved the first charge tank at like 3kw but the newer one at 6kw made the 3kw one almost worthless by comparison now everyone wants CCS and J charging seems obsolete to most.  Of course we have painted ourselves into a corner by only having AC access at home (for now) so onboard AC chargers are still needed for the majority of EV fill ups.

In other words I'm just trying to limit the growing pains of full adoption by not wasting too much money on a sub standard charging process.

[Crissa]

Having J charging readily available and distributed means that cheaper, smaller battery vehicles (like our bikes) and cheaper, smaller chargers (like AC chargers).

More charging means more versatility. Do we need expensive CCS style chargers to support these cheaper vehicles?  Maybe, if get enough, it will make EVs cheaper by offloading some of the cost.

But right now, adding J-plugs is fairly cheap.  They draw like a standard house or industrial/commercial device.  They're compatible with different types of activities like working or dining than the CCS's compatibility with a restroom or convenience store visit.

And if we have the wiring to support J-plugs, that's easily upgraded in the future to whatever.

If we don't, we're still in the laying wires stage, the cheap EVs we can build are less useful.  And hence, we get fewer of them.

-Crissa

[BigPoppa]

More likely to get offended that your non HD is there tempting real HD customers...

It may be because I used to own both a Harley and a Buell but my local H-D dealer was okay with me using their charger on my Energica. A couple of the sales folks took time away from their desks to come outside and check out my bike while I was charging (I went inside and asked if it was okay for me to use their charger). I didn't get any sense of them being irked because my non-Livewire was using their charger.

[gregj]

I can tell you why, if I was a business, I would be loathe to buy a current ( sorry) charging station.
EV's are ridiculously new as a "mass" transport option. There is NO AGREED standard that will stand any test of time.
Volatges and current ratings will almost certainly migrate around the place as motors, batteries etc evolve. I VERY much doubt that lithium ion or even Li FePO4 batteries will remain as the basis for vehicle batteries . Their charging curves and voltages ( multiples of 3.2 or 3.7V) will pretty likely become obsolete as higher energy density units evolve. Having dozens/hundreds of tiny cells is an inelegant solution , and is, at best, an interim measure.
Add to that the charging interface . Everybody wants their brand of connector.
That said , a standardized  high current multi voltage/charge curve outlet would allow larger establishments to bear the setup cost and amotrise the cost before a new standard becomes necessary. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for private enterprises to agree with one another.

[Crissa]

The thing is, the vast majority of the cost of a charger is the wiring to the box.

That's not going to change.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

I can tell you why, if I was a business, I would be loathe to buy a current ( sorry) charging station.
EV's are ridiculously new as a "mass" transport option. There is NO AGREED standard that will stand any test of time.
Volatges and current ratings will almost certainly migrate around the place as motors, batteries etc evolve. I VERY much doubt that lithium ion or even Li FePO4 batteries will remain as the basis for vehicle batteries . Their charging curves and voltages ( multiples of 3.2 or 3.7V) will pretty likely become obsolete as higher energy density units evolve. Having dozens/hundreds of tiny cells is an inelegant solution , and is, at best, an interim measure.
Add to that the charging interface . Everybody wants their brand of connector.
That said , a standardized  high current multi voltage/charge curve outlet would allow larger establishments to bear the setup cost and amotrise the cost before a new standard becomes necessary. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for private enterprises to agree with one another.

Gregj, yes to all of this.  Where have you been I've felt all alone. 
I love my Zeros and their batteries make highway electric motorcycle riding possible but they aren't good enough for the masses compared to gas bikes.  Frankly solid state batteries (or similar) will have to be here and real and in their full glory to make the full switch.  You have to charge fully in under 15 minutes and Li ion just can't.

[Crissa]

Oh, you could charge it that fast.  It would just be really expensive for a bike.

Motorcycles just don't have mass appeal given other options.  And of the vast majority of world bike users, only a tiny fragment even go on long trips.

It's really the price point that's the problem.

-Crissa

[Fran K]

The thing is, the vast majority of the cost of a charger is the wiring to the box.

That's not going to change.

-Crissa

The charger will include a big battery for when the sun shines and the wind blows.

The choice of real estate, what site work is involved and what other electric stuff can be bundled in the contract.  If I interpret your statement as intended.

Around here the wires are overhead.

[gregj]

Chrissa,
I agree that the price point is currently the main problem.  The biggest change to that , I think, will be a more mass production and uptake ( chicken and egg problem currently I think).

In Australia, commuting to work along a highway or motorway 40 or 50km, one way, in not uncommon in both the cities and rural areas.  My partner's daughter commutes 5 days a week 120km round trip to work between western Brisbane and the Gold coast ( she a midwife). Now she doesn't take a motorcycle ( she has to take her daughter toi day care), but plenty do. It s not uncommon  a distance for a work trip in the bigger cities. I suspect in her case she would actually be a canidate for a super bike rather than a super commuter though. She has been riding since she was a teenager and learned on a FZR250RR...
But Australia is not a big market I guess.