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[ALLVLTS]

Hi all,

New to forum, not new to EV's or motorcycles. I've been lurking here for a little while, figured it was time to register.
Long story short, I have a 2014 Corvette Stingray that I absolutely love, but unfortunately I have to sell it because of a very expensive family medical emergency.

As a consolation, I'm considering buying a bike that is more fun than my 2014 Ninja 300 (which I bought mainly for commuting). It's a good bike and powerful enough for what it is, but it leaves me wanting for more power on the highway where most of my commute takes place, and it's a tad on the uncomfortable and unstable side for me at highway speeds. With the loss of my only powerful vehicle, it just doesn't do it for me. My previous bike was a 2008 ZX-10R and that, of course, was on a completely different level from the 300 (which I knew going in). I don't need (or neccessarily want) THAT much performance with the inherent drawbacks a supersport necessitates... what I really miss is the torque.

I've always wanted an electric motorcycle for all of the benefits that you all know about so well. I've been following the industry since ~2008 and the value and overall specs just didn't make sense for me... until now. The 2016 Zero SR will fit the bill in all of the key aspects (especially that amazing torque). It's still an expensive bike, but a whole lot cheaper than the Corvette I have to sell and with the federal and Maryland tax credits, I will get over $3200 back. I don't need or want the power tank, so more better. I like the sound of this.

And then I got a reality check again... Yesterday I found out that Suzuki now makes pretty much the EXACT gas bike that I've been wanting all along. A 1000cc sportbike for the STREET (as opposed to a racebike with lights). It's almost as if the (annoyingly named) 2016 GSX-S1000F was built just for me! It has a retuned-for-torque older GSX-R engine that still packs a 145hp top end wallop, sporty but relatively comfy ergos, and weighs a very manageable 476 lbs wet. Reviews are outstanding. It also comes in my favorite color BY FAR, a beautiful medium blue. This is the perfect halfway point between my old '96 GPZ1100 sport touring rig that was powerful enough but too big and heavy for relatively short trips and my old 2008 ZX-10R that was super powerful, lightweight, and razor sharp, but far too uncomfortable for me (not to mention that it BEGGED to be pushed to warp-speed with every fiery pulse of the race-bred 13,000rpm 200hp mill...not a good thing on the busy streets).
This Suzuki with one of the available taller windscreens and its additional moderate wind/weather protection and easygoing street manners sounds like it would suit me just fine! To top it all off... it costs $11,999. That's about $1,800 cheaper than the Zero even AFTER I get the $3200 back next tax season.

Disregarding the typical drawbacks to a modern gas bike, my biggest concern with the Zero is the lack of a fairing on my mostly highway commute, which is 26 miles each way. Average speeds are around 70mph but for occasional stretches 85mph is normal (not for more than a couple miles at a time though). I don't care too much for getting beat up by the wind, and a moderate fairing with an aftermarket sport-touring type windscreen goes a long way toward more comfort. I would certainly order the Zero with the Commuter windscreen, but that's still pretty minimal. Can any of you who own a 2013+ S or DS variant who prefers fairings comment on the 70+mph manners in comparison?

Either way I go, I would be trading in my Ninja 300 because I don't have room for two bikes (and the few thousand $$$ would help). I do like the idea of being able to ride the Suzuki pretty far out of the area to some nice roads on the weekends, which I can't do with a Zero. I like not only the looks of the Suzuki much better, but the midly better weather protection that it offers, and it's cheaper and much more powerful. OTOH, I don't think anything would beat commuting in stop and go traffic when it happens (often around here) on a bike with one speed, instant torque, a smooth and silent motor, and no extra heat in the already miserable summer temps with full gear (ATGATT for me). Also, I love the idea of never visiting a gas station and avoiding oil changes altogether.
The only local Zero dealer doesn't have any S or DS variants for demos, so I can't test ride one unfortunately. I'm not at all interested in the FX that they do have for demos. I doubt I'd get a test ride on the Suzuki at another local dealer (especially after pulling up on a Ninja 300), but I can at least sit on that one.

I know this forum is obviously biased toward the electric bike, but can you all share some thoughts that I may not have considered (as per the above)? There is still a STRONG case to be made for the cheaper, much more versatile bike! Electrics will probably get there... but aren't fully on par just yet. TIA for the replies!

Here are the two awesome bikes that I'm considering just for a good visual comparison:

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I am not technical enough a sport rider to comment on high-speed handling; I have a DS and care more about handling below 60mph or on rough pavement or unsealed roads.

However, I do favor a good fairing and windscreen (my baseline for comparison is the V-Strom 650). I did post a thread about getting a large Parabellum windscreen on, and I found the result very worthwhile, comfort-wise, even at high speeds (85mph+) or at normal highway speeds with significant headwinds (very common around here). I do not find the OEM windscreen to be adequate.

[ALLVLTS]

I have seen your thread, but thanks for the link. That one is actually too big for my tastes, but it does look very functional. I guess I'm not exactly sure if just a windscreen would take care of what I'm after. The mid and lower fairings on medium sized faired bikes (such as the aforementioned Suzuki) seem to help a bit all around vs the naked bikes I've ridden. The Ninja 300 is barely better though, as its fairings are quite narrow. What I'd really like to do, short of Zero coming out with fairings that could be retrofitted, is mount a full 00-01 ZX-12R body on it. To my eye, they are quite beautiful in their aero-designed smoothness, and I think that the 00-01 upper fairing is tall enough that it might accomodate the higher bars of the SR. I can only go by pictures though, so I could be way off. The tail is a lot bigger which would help reduce drag as well. I'd like to do that sometime in the future if I get the Zero, but that is a lot of extra work and extra cost that the Suzuki already has done (though it's not as efficient or as pretty to me as the ZX-12R).

[ALLVLTS]

Something else I'm concerned about is reliability and repair time if required. I know the 2016 shouldn't overheat on me at all, but it is using the same compenents otherwise as the earlier years which have seemed to have some reliability issues. That in itself isn't a deal breaker for me, but combined with the horror stories of some several month-long repairs it has me thinking that I don't want to deal with that. Compared to the reliability of the Japanese bikes and their near immediate parts availability if anything does go wrong in addition to an expansive dealer network, the Zeros seem like they can be a huge pain in the butt. Does anyone know if they've fixed any of the issuesfor 2016 that they've had in the past (other than the IPM motor)?

[MostlyBonkers]

Hmm, sounds like Suzuki are having a stab at a Yamaha Fazer. I owned a gen 1 Fazer 1000 for a year and it was a fantastic bike even though it was 11 years old.

Tough choice. I have a 2014  DS and it handles well at 70 or 85. Brian has done really well with his screen, so I'd seriously consider doing something similar if you go for the SR.

How would you feel about fitting a screen and buying the Diginow fast charger when it becomes available? Could you plan your leisure riding around a long lunch to recharge? You must test ride both bikes before making a decision though. Hopefully you can find a way to do that.

[ALLVLTS]

I wouldn't mind taking a long lunch for a recharge on a pleasure ride but most of the areas that I'd go are very rural so there isn't anywhere to quick charge that I know of. I haven't looked on plugshare or the like so I'm not positive on that, but it's unlikely to work out.

[WoadRaider]

Hey Allvlts

It sounds like you already know what you want. As for my short experience with my zero (a week): Its seat is ok, not super comfortable. Depending on your size you'd have to put a huge wind screen on it, and the bug fly, as well as whatever other fairing additions you can come up with. So far, when I'm at speed I just learn all the way forward with the front of my helmet past the display (for aerodynamics), but it's super uncomfortable.

And I just want to correct that while the Zero is much better than other motorcycles when it comes to stop and go traffic or city driving there are gas and electric scooters that are even better (and usually a little cheaper). I doubt it's your style but the ZEV LRC comes to mind.

You can get charging equipment now that allows you to go long distances and charge in 1-2 hours. Look on plugshare and a few of the other apps/websites, I'm confident you'll find one near where you are going (or on the way). Where do you live?

From what I've heard and read: Reliability is really a crap-shoot. Either the bike doesn't have any problems and almost no maintenance or it does have problems and they take months to straighten out. But if you're getting a 2016 I'd assume it's much more likely to be issue free.

[PhreaK]

I commute around 25km each way every day on an SR. I also head out of the city which means there's very little traffic so speeds stay somewhere between 100km/h and the speed limiter depending on how much coffee I've had. I also refuse to put a windscreen on as they look like balls.

One thing which did make a huge difference, and I would highly recommend considering, was switching to a nicer, more aerodynamic helmet -- a Shuberth C3 in particular. This removed any buffeting and makes traveling at higher speeds much more enjoyable.

While I'm sure a fairing would do wonders, it's not that bad without it. The lack of a screaming engine (particularly compared to a Ninja 300 at those speeds) makes a huge difference to general comfort. Also you can't go past the instant torque for manoeuvring around traffic and the minimal maintenance is killer.

[ALLVLTS]

Hey Allvlts

It sounds like you already know what you want. As for my short experience with my zero (a week): Its seat is ok, not super comfortable. Depending on your size you'd have to put a huge wind screen on it, and the bug fly, as well as whatever other fairing additions you can come up with. So far, when I'm at speed I just learn all the way forward with the front of my helmet past the display (for aerodynamics), but it's super uncomfortable.

And I just want to correct that while the Zero is much better than other motorcycles when it comes to stop and go traffic or city driving there are gas and electric scooters that are even better (and usually a little cheaper). I doubt it's your style but the ZEV LRC comes to mind.

You can get charging equipment now that allows you to go long distances and charge in 1-2 hours. Look on plugshare and a few of the other apps/websites, I'm confident you'll find one near where you are going (or on the way). Where do you live?

From what I've heard and read: Reliability is really a crap-shoot. Either the bike doesn't have any problems and almost no maintenance or it does have problems and they take months to straighten out. But if you're getting a 2016 I'd assume it's much more likely to be issue free.

I do know what I want... Everything!    Can't have it all, though. Both bikes really do have strong high points for me but they're opposing.
I've thought about adding the Zero fly screen in addition to the commuter windscreen but I'm not sure if they'd fit together (though the windscreen is adjustable so maybe) but it's so tiny that I doubt it would make any difference whatsoever, except cosmetically. I've also thought about lower fairing 'wings' that I can attach for cold weather to keep the wind off my legs. That doesn't seem too hard. Definitely not interested in riding in a full tuck, full time.

Yeah, I don't want a scooter or a ZEV in general, either.

Plugshare does show lots of level 2's in the DC area (where I live) of course, and some out toward the WV areas that I'd like to explore. It might be doable but would take careful planning and probably two seperate charging stops since it's all so far out. Another option I've considered is loading up the Zero into my truck and driving it to a good start/end point, but that takes away some of the fun and convienience of just hopping on and going wherever.

Reliability (and service) being a crapshoot bothers me. I'm hoping 2016's are better but riding season is just starting up for many people so I don't know how much data there is available for them yet. I'm not ready just this second to buy so maybe more experiences will be available shortly.

[ALLVLTS]

I commute around 25km each way every day on an SR. I also head out of the city which means there's very little traffic so speeds stay somewhere between 100km/h and the speed limiter depending on how much coffee I've had. I also refuse to put a windscreen on as they look like balls.

One thing which did make a huge difference, and I would highly recommend considering, was switching to a nicer, more aerodynamic helmet -- a Shuberth C3 in particular. This removed any buffeting and makes traveling at higher speeds much more enjoyable.

While I'm sure a fairing would do wonders, it's not that bad without it. The lack of a screaming engine (particularly compared to a Ninja 300 at those speeds) makes a huge difference to general comfort. Also you can't go past the instant torque for manoeuvring around traffic and the minimal maintenance is killer.

I hadn't thought about that, thanks for the suggestion. My current helmet fits me nicely, but it isn't the quietest or most aerodynamic one ever. The C3's were just coming out when I bought this one and no one carried them so I didn't consider it because I absolutely have to try a helmet on before buying. It looks like there are a couple distributors in the greater area now, maybe I'll have to see if they have any in stock that I can try on.
Yeah, the little 300 does scream on the highway. It doesn't sound like it's screaming because it has the very quiet stock exhaust (and only two cylinders) but you can certainly feel the buzz through the grips and pegs. That's one of the things that I think I'd like on the Zero, the absence of engine vibrations. It sounds like it would be more relaxing, and that's important to me for commuting. That Suzuki 4 cylinder is said to be very smooth below 6000rpm though, which it would be during most of the commute. Still, it can't be nearly as smooth as the Zero. Yeah, the instant passing power and less maintenance are two things I really like about the Zero.

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts so far. Maybe I can convince the dealer in Annapolis to get an SR or S demo in so I can test ride, heh. I think that would go a long way in helping me decide. For the moment though, gotta focus on selling the vette! (Anyone interested? )

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I also wear a Schuberth C3 [thanks to an insurance payoff for my last helmet protecting me], and still wanted full aerodynamic protection. Everyone has different expectations and sense of satisfaction.

[MostlyBonkers]

I've got a C3 too and am very happy with it. It's the quietest helmet there is. It's also warmer in winter due to the wind protection under the chin. Saves me wearing a balaclava in freezing temperatures.

Getting back on my Zero after a couple of weeks of pistons is like being upgraded back to first class. The smoothness of the powertrain leads to a level of refinement that ICE bikes just can't match. The lack of noise is part of that. I feel like I'm gliding to work and it does feel relaxing. It's still fun though and being able to pull away from the lights effortlessly whilst leaving the traffic behind doesn't get old. If you are willing to compromise a bit on the weekend trips, then the zero may just be the right choice for you.

I actually find the planning part of weekend/leisure rides adds another dimension to the experience. Selecting the shortest route on the sat nav makes for some interesting journeys. There's a greater sense of adventure that I really enjoy. So far I haven't missed my VFR, NC750 or even the Fazer. I just wish I could charge faster. Diginow and Elcon have an answer for that when I can afford it.

Riding electric is a great experience. You know when you love a vehicle when you're willing to put up with the odd issue. With a 2016 model there's a good chance you won't have any issues. Suzuki have a massive recall on at the moment by the way.

I said it's a tough choice earlier, but now I'm thinking that maybe it isn't. I'm not in your shoes though.

[ALLVLTS]

Sounds like the C3 is a good match with a Zero.

As I lie here sick in bed I've been watching and reading everything I can on both of these bikes (and looking up a few others). Man, they're both so awesome in their own right. I am leaning more toward the Zero though. If I'm honest, 95% of my riding will be commuting and running around close to home so it really makes more sense. With a few relatively easy mods regarding wind management it sounds like it'll be just fine at the highway speeds I run.

There's still time so I'll continue to mull for now. Thanks again for all the info!

[protomech]

As I lie here sick in bed I've been watching and reading everything I can on both of these bikes (and looking up a few others). Man, they're both so awesome in their own right. I am leaning more toward the Zero though. If I'm honest, 95% of my riding will be commuting and running around close to home so it really makes more sense. With a few relatively easy mods regarding wind management it sounds like it'll be just fine at the highway speeds I run.

On the highway, the GSX will be faster and more comfortable to ride. If 140 mph is your goal, the GSX will get you there. It'll also do better on long trips, though at 38 mpg you're going to be filling it up pretty often.

Everywhere else, the Zero is going to be better IMO. Easier to ride, faster in many real-world situations, lighter, quieter, start every day with 100+ miles in the tank. The Zero does fine on the highway, but for long distances you will be fighting the wind more.

The GSX is also a lot cheaper, particularly if you buy slightly used. Used Zeros are also available, if you don't need the newer battery and motor design.

Go ride both bikes if you haven't already, and figure out what you really want.

[MostlyBonkers]

I've found myself thinking about this thread a lot recently. More has come to mind since my last couple of posts.

I loved my Fazer 1000 but then I traded it for a Honda NC750. That's a similar bike to a Zero S in many ways. I learnt that it's not a bike for the motorway. I then got a VFR 1200FD and that allowed me to enjoy the motorway. You need lots of horsepower to have a fun ride at high speed. A fairing helps too.

With my Zero I use a route to work that spends less time at high speed but I still enjoy my commute.

I think owning a Zero has transformed my riding. Instead of charging around everywhere, I actually get more pleasure from going steady. I can still have fun if I fancy doing a bit of spirited riding, but I find the whole experience more pleasurable with an electric motor.

One appeal of a litre bike is the effortless power. Well you get that in spades with a Zero. Pulling away from the lights or overtaking is elegant in it's simplicity. Leaving cars and lesser bikes revving behind you is one of those rare pleasures that doesn't get old.

If you'll be spending most of your time on the highway at speed, then the Suzuki is probably the way to go. Also if you want to do long trips with minimum hassle. Otherwise I think a Zero will probably give you more pleasure overall.