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[dkw12002]

 I think the 2013s will be so much better than the 2012s that Zero will need to offer the 2012s at a discount anyway in order to sell them. Those Li batteries aren't getting better with age. It's not like buying a bike that remains unchanged for many years. Look how old the 2010 electric technology looks now. One way or the other, Zero is going to have to sell the 2012s at a discount pretty soon. There may not be too many of them out there though..maybe a couple hundred of all models combined. That's water under the bridge and they need the cash flow. I'd get the new bikes out NOW and offer the 2012s at a discount. Beat Empulse to the punch.   

[Richard230]

My dealer still has about 5 new 2011 Zero models in their showroom.  They are offering them for $1000 off list price, but my guess is that you could buy one for less than that.

[protomech]

Contacted Zero today, they just received the bike this morning. Shipped out on the 10th, 7 business day / 11 real day ship time.

The Warranty POC says they have put the bike on the dyno and it's in engineering's hands now. I will forward any findings here.

[Electric Terry]

Looking forward to the update.  No cutouts in 2 days, just motor vibrations from running out of sync.  If I start to back off and slow down and just goose the throttle a dozen times or so until I all the sudden feel the throttle response and power come back and then get on it hard, it usually stays good for a while.  We need an in-line signal amplifier and good shielding around those sensor signal wires!

Anyone else with updates?

[jpaulus]

Got the bike back from the factory yesterday and rode it last night and this morning and it rides like new.

[Richard230]

That is great news!  Now, of course, what we all want to know is what was done by Zero to solve the problem?

I suspect that information will come out in a formal recall announcement sometime in the near future.

[jpaulus]

They had to replace my motor but the fix may not be so extreme for others.  See the details in reply #186:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=1964.msg8942#msg8942

[protomech]

8/10/12: bike serviced at local shop where it received a controller software update and encoder sync; no problems riding that day

8/11/12: test ride day; cutout multiple times near end of ride

8/15/12: Zero picked up bike and took it back to the factory

8/16/12 - 8/20/12: bike was re-tuned for timing issues using their Dyno (rolling road) and tested on a 26 mile ride with no issues; tech rode it home and it cutout on him; further testing revealed a weak signal from encoder to motor; motor swapped with fully tested new one; my bike (S-ZF9) was manufactured (VIN ending 0239) before a more detailed motor analysis test was instituted at "end of line" and they believe that my motor would have been flagged as below acceptable tolerances at that time; explanation: the encoder signal changes slightly on brushless motors with repeated heating and cooling and general break-in; the tolerances on my bike were not sufficient for this change; they are learning more from my original motor

That's what really worries me with respect to my bike, the glitch is sometimes very intermittent - even after it started cutting out very frequently, there was still a random 50 mile stretch where it was perfect. I would much rather Zero take their time to ensure the bike is functioning properly than to tweak it and kick it out the door.

[jpaulus]

I would much rather Zero take their time to ensure the bike is functioning properly than to tweak it and kick it out the door.

What they discovered with my bike is that they need to run their relatively new electrical test for the signal strength tolerance from the encoder to motor.  That is a test that is fortunately independent of experiencing a glitch.

[Bdavis]

has anyone had the glitch completely fixed?

[manlytom]

My dealer still has about 5 new 2011 Zero models in their showroom.  They are offering them for $1000 off list price, but my guess is that you could buy one for less than that.

Hi Richard, is this Harlan ? Might asked him to sell to Australia .... if we get the shipping osrted....

[jpaulus]

has anyone had the glitch completely fixed?

Yes, mine was recently fixed.

[Electric Terry]

has anyone had the glitch completely fixed?

Yes, mine was recently fixed.

So stoked about this!!!!  I'm soooo ready to quit having close calls with vehicles lol, although it has made the past 6 or 7 weeks extremely exciting and perhaps long term made me a much better rider as I have had to force myself to plan out hundreds of "what if" scenerios far far in advance.   But it sure would be nice to relax a little and avoid the "oh shit" feeling when you go to accelerate to get out of a hairy situation and nothing is there or you start coasting faster out of the blue for no reason.  (When the "glitch" happens when riding off throttle the regen quits working and you go from slowing down to feeling like you are actually partly on the throttle at high speed.  I know a few of you know the crazy I'm talking about)

So for those of us far from a local dealer do we have Zero ship us a replacement motor?  I had my motor out a few weeks ago when I replaced a snapped drive belt and used that opportunity to go from a 28 tooth to a 25 tooth front sprocket, which for the way I ride was definitely a performance boost with no loss of top end I can see.  The stock gearing let the motor spin up to 101 mph that I could tell from when I had the wheel off the ground.  3 teeth around 25 equates to almost 12% at 100 or drop from 101 mph theoretical to 89 mph theoretical.  Oooops got off track a little.  What i meant to say is the motor replacement is 100 times easier than removing the motor in a gas bike.  Can do it in under 2 hours first time, and if you've done it before and know all the tools you need ahead of time, probably less than 30 minutes.

The biggest thing we all need is the proper diagnostic procedure to test the motor encoder signal strength.  Although if recalibrating the controller didn't work, I guess testing the encoder becomes unnecessary as it is all that is left it could be.  Luke, Ryan do you guys agree with this analysis or have an alternate one?  Thanks.

[Richard230]

My dealer still has about 5 new 2011 Zero models in their showroom.  They are offering them for $1000 off list price, but my guess is that you could buy one for less than that.

Hi Richard, is this Harlan ? Might asked him to sell to Australia .... if we get the shipping osrted....

My Zero dealer is Mission Motorcycles (no relation to the one-off EV manufacturer of the same name and located a few miles north) in Daly City, CA.  They also sell Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha motorcycles.  Zeros are just a small part of their business. I kind of doubt they are set up to sell and ship motorcycles overseas.

[protomech]

Zero's powertrain lead called today and chatted for a few minutes.

He said there are a couple of possible issues they're chasing - one is a faulty motor like jpaulus, one is an encoder that can drift over time and thermal / power cycles. They're looking at a new firmware released by Sevcon which supposedly can compensate for encoder drift. They're fairly confident encoder drift is what was causing my motor glitch.

He says arriving at a permanent solution for motor glitches is top priority for Zero. Sounds like they have some debugging ahead of them yet .. but hopefully they're making progress. I've been promised a regular (daily) update on the bike, and I'll pass that along.