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Author Topic: Glitch  (Read 76152 times)

dkw12002

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #165 on: August 15, 2012, 01:28:05 AM »

All 3 of my e-bikes shut off if I try to climb a hill that is too steep. This is a controller function (3 different motors and 3 different controllers with my bikes) where the volts increase too much and the controller shuts down to prevent heat damage. After a few seconds you can reboot. It is a very common problem in the electric bike world.
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Brammofan

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #166 on: August 15, 2012, 01:50:39 AM »

All 3 of my e-bikes shut off if I try to climb a hill that is too steep. This is a controller function (3 different motors and 3 different controllers with my bikes) where the volts increase too much and the controller shuts down to prevent heat damage. After a few seconds you can reboot. It is a very common problem in the electric bike world.

But it's unacceptable in the motorcycle world.
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Richard230

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #167 on: August 15, 2012, 02:06:16 AM »

Today, for the first time and at 2010 miles, I was "hit by the glitch".  I was riding on level ground at 45 mph, with light throttle, in Sport mode, in sunny and dry 55 degree weather, I was still on the first bar of the fuel gauge and there was no source of electrical interference visible anywhere in the vicinity.  The motor suddenly started vibrating like it was out of sync and the power dropped about in half but did not cut out completely. I managed to get off the roadway at an intersecting driveway, turned the ignition off and then back on and was able to continue on my way for another 20 miles, which included some freeway travel, without any more problems.

My bike is completely bone-stock, I follow all of the instructions in the owner's manual, the motor has never been anywhere near getting too hot and when freeway riding I usually stick to around 60 mph.  I have never ridden in the rain and high temperatures around here are typically in the 60's. I doubt you could find anyone riding their 2012 Zero S any easier than me, plus I just had the recall performed on the BMS board.  

My guess is that a sensor or a transistor is failing somewhere.  I had a similar problem with a 1983 Kawasaki GPz 305.  Kawasaki located the ignition unit black box directly on top of the cylinder head and the heat apparently cooked a thermistor in the device (according to my electrical analysis). I bought a new one for $150 (a lot of money in those days) and it too failed after another 8K miles for the same reason.  I have also had all sorts of problems with motorcycle voltage regulators failing. Plus, both of my GPR-S bikes expired when transistors in their BMS boards melted. Motorcycles are really tough on electrical components, especially when they are not specifically designed for use in the type of environment experienced by a motorcycle.  Mil-spec components would likely work really well, but then who can afford that stuff other than the government buying them with our taxes?   ::)
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

jpaulus

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #168 on: August 15, 2012, 02:37:00 AM »

Richard, sounds like you hit the pre-glitch just before it cuts out entirely.  I too have gotten them in the 45-55mph range and I don't think I've had my bike to full speed let alone for an extended period of time.   Your experience (and weather) sounds like mine.
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protomech

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #169 on: August 15, 2012, 02:49:05 AM »

Richard, sounds like you hit the pre-glitch just before it cuts out entirely.  I too have gotten them in the 45-55mph range and I don't think I've had my bike to full speed let alone for an extended period of time.   Your experience (and weather) sounds like mine.

Yes. Sounds exactly like the roughness I experienced. Very often if I stopped the bike after experiencing the roughness it would cut out.
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Electric Terry

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #170 on: August 15, 2012, 06:23:29 AM »

Richard that's exactly it.  And just like clock work near the 2000 mile odometer mark like everyone else itseems.   To protect yourself and be safe from here on out, ride fast enough that you are going faster than anyone who might be behind you so if you cut out, you have a buffer to avoid getting bumped from the back.  That's the biggest thing I learned is to have plenty of space behind you to buy yourself time to reset the key.  Although it sounds like you are a pro already at dealing with cut outs from the GPRS days, lol.

Mine actually didn't hit till almost 3500 miles.  Which reminds me, I wanted to ask, is there anyone on the forum here with over 2-3000 miles on a 2012 that doesn't have the "glitch"?  I know some of the prototypes from last year that zero has with almost 25k miles don't have it, im just curious if any since the spring 2012 production run are glitch free.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 06:25:38 AM by offthegrid »
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ColoPaul

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #171 on: August 15, 2012, 08:19:30 AM »

3 hour roundtrip to get my bike back from the dealer.  On the plus side - I put 10 miles on it and the glitch seems to be gone.  :) On the minus side - my bike picked up 4 ~1" scratches in the various plastic panels.  :(  To give the dealer credit - they offered to get replacements (3 new plastic panels).  I told them it wasn't worth it, I would probably eventually ding up the plastic myself, it was just disappointing as I had been really careful to keep it showroom new up to this point.

Here is the text written by the tech:  "Recreated complaint.  [...]  replaced bms and mbb and still has not fixed the problem.  Performed dcf update and calsincos update unit is now functioning"

Well, I'm back on the road!  Yay!  Fingers crossed this is my last post in this wretched thread.  :P
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Electric Terry

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #172 on: August 15, 2012, 07:42:32 PM »

ColoPaul!  This sounds awesome!  Please try to rack up a few hundred miles over the next day or two and let us know if it is still error free.  I am hoping for the best.

The only thing that makes me wonder is....

1) Why did the bike run great for 2k miles and then have trouble?  Did the calibration software change when the odometer hit 2,000?  Or did something else change. 

Regardless if it really did fix it, I'd love to try it on all the other bikes too.

I had my controller recalibrated a few weeks ago, and it seemed to fix it too, until I took a long highway trip and then it was worse. 

Have you taken a long highway ride yet?  How many miles since the "fix"? Keep us updated daily please, Thanks ColoPaul.

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100,000+ all electric miles on Zero Motorcycles - 75,000+ on a 2012 Zero S and 35,000+ miles on a 2015 Zero SR
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Larry295

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #173 on: August 15, 2012, 08:17:21 PM »

But is Zero saying nothing about this Glitch???
I am about to pass the 1000miles mark, and so far nothing (on a 2012 Zero S ZF6). But it seems to be happening to everybody, so I am worried now.
I can't believe that Zero hasn't already figured out what it was, and taken care of the issue!!!
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JohnSki

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #174 on: August 16, 2012, 07:08:08 AM »

I was reading Zero vs. ICE post Colopaul wrote:

“Funny, since they did all the work on my ZF6; my 'gas gauge' is now clearly showing 50% more miles per bar.  It's almost as if when they installed the new BMS they forget to tell it was on a ZF6 and it thinks it's a ZF9.   Another call to the dealer...”

My initial thought was that it would be a wonderful side effect if offthegrids controller upgraded also added some more efficiency by the controller being able to handle more amps.

I couldn’t find any info to back this up.  It does look like the controller has built in heat protection. It should be mounted with heat sinking grease. There are options that could be added to the controller if they will fit (like a heat sink).

If the controller is faulting there should be a LED that will blink a code that you will find in this reference manual.

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/Manuals/Gen4_Product_Manual_V3.0.pdf

Here are the bikes drive train specs. Also has some nice photos of some components.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/powertrains/powertrains-sales-sheets.pdf
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Electric Terry

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #175 on: August 18, 2012, 03:31:22 AM »

Great info Johnski!  I read the whole thing and it looks like I need that external LED to display on the dash or somewhere that can more easily be seen. Or a programmer to pull all the codes the controller has stored.

The other night i got caught in the rain bad and the bike cut out, but this time it displayed a code on the dash.  i'm pretty sure it flashed once then twice, which would be a charging connected error.  But obviously the bike wasn't plugged in while riding.   if I came to a stop while the code flashed, the bike would cut out and take a half hour of cycling the key to get it to boot up, and if i took off it was fine, but if i stopped completely it would cut out and leave me stranded again.  So I learned quickly how to carefully run the red lights and stop signs and get home without ever letting the wheels stop spinning.  This seems like it is a seperate issue from the controller failure.  Perhaps BMS related?  But I have the new updated waterproof board installed so not sure.

Any updates from anyone else?
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ColoPaul

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #176 on: August 18, 2012, 03:58:13 AM »

There have been some crazy hairy situations I've been in when it cuts out, even though I have grown to always expect it.  Last night when it cut out and the trouble is resetting the key cuts out the back light, and a driver came rushing up on me and didn't see me till the last second when the rear light came on and I flashed my back light as fast as I could.  There was no shoulder to pull off on for another 100-200 feet.  I was literally out of options.
...ride fast enough that you are going faster than anyone who might be behind you so if you cut out, you have a buffer to avoid getting bumped from the back.
So I learned quickly how to carefully run the red lights and stop signs and get home without ever letting the wheels stop spinning.   

offthegrid,  I enjoy your posts but you make me fear for your life.  :o
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Keith_Greensboro_NC

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #177 on: August 18, 2012, 06:10:52 AM »

I have a Zero S ZF9 I purchased 5 months ago. I have 2773 miles on it and I've had no glitches. I am curious what firmware version different owners have on their bikes.

On boot up, mine shows u7  2011  11.

Keith
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BSDThw

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #178 on: August 18, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »

Hi Keith_Greensboro_NC,

Software version will be not so easy, we have a bunch of SW in that bike.

The SevCon Controller has a firmware that we hopefully would not have to update. But Zero makes “dcf” files this are the parameter inside the SevCon Controller. But there will be no display of a version if you change the dcf-paramter.

The BMS Board has a firmware, the MBB has a firmware.

I am not sure but the “u7 2011 11” might be the firmware of the dash board.

Has someone more information about it?

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Keith_Greensboro_NC

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Re: Glitch
« Reply #179 on: August 18, 2012, 07:40:14 PM »

Thanks BSDTHw for the insight. What is the MBB?

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