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[jpaulus]

Today's test (the day after the 'fix') was 30 miles of mainly highway riding.  The mostly throbbing motor had anemic acceleration and it cut out 4 times.  The fix was very temporary.

I don't expect perfection on bleeding edge tech but at this point I'm going to expect excellent communication from the folks at Zero as we proceed toward a solution.

[kcoplan]

I just put a deposit on a new 2012 S ZF 6 -- then I ciscovred this forum and discussion of the "glitch.". You have all got me a little worried that I am buying into a headache, especially since my dealer is a an hour and a half away and I don't own a truck to haul my bike around.

Anyone have a sense of the percentage of 2012 Zeros that suffer from this problem?  Presumably the new bikes won't have the circuit board weatherproofing problem.

Seriously, do you think I can stuff one of these  bikes in the backf a Prius if I have to get it back to the dealer several times?  I measured the Prius - believe it or not, it's long enough with the seats down.  Shouldn't be a problem putting an electric bike on its side - no carbeurator float or fluids to leak.  How easy is it to unbolt the handlebars?

Thank you for sharing your experience -  looking forward to hearing how it gets resolved.  Meanwhile, I think I will sign up for the roadside assistance plan with my insurance!

[Spires]

I won't buy a bike until I see the problem traced sown and a solution... Hope they have it fixed in the upcoming models... I had a cutout problem on my 2011 DS.. I found it easily.. It was the blue squarish sensor that wraps one of the leads.. I removed all the trim so I could poke it while riding. Sure enough just touching it messed the bike up so badly that I stopped to deal with it. If it moves around at all it WILL still cause a cuttout.. I finally managed to fix it tight against something, zip tie it securely and now It never cuts out. Maybe they kept this sensor on the 2012 models?

[manlytom]

I won't buy a bike until I see the problem traced sown and a solution... Hope they have it fixed in the upcoming models... I had a cutout problem on my 2011 DS.. I found it easily.. It was the blue squarish sensor that wraps one of the leads.. I removed all the trim so I could poke it while riding. Sure enough just touching it messed the bike up so badly that I stopped to deal with it. If it moves around at all it WILL still cause a cuttout.. I finally managed to fix it tight against something, zip tie it securely and now It never cuts out. Maybe they kept this sensor on the 2012 models?

Hi Spires.
Where is that sensor located and any idea what it does? Did the cut outs happen in summer or winter temperatures?
I had cut outs on my 2010 and we tried several fixes to no avail. Noow want to understand in case 2011 has them.

[dkw12002]

kcoplan. I believe it would fit in the Prius. I have a 2012 Prius and I can put a 26-in bike in the back and close the hatch, if I lower the seat and handlebars, so yes you could get it in. The trouble though is the weight. I think you would probably scratch either your car or the bike or possibly hurt yourself. My e-bicycle weighs like 60 lbs. and that was awkward enough. I wouldn't try it with a Zero.  I'd rent a U-haul trailer made for motorcycles and take it in that way. What's another couple hundred dollars? Actually, I wouldn't buy a Zero if my dealer was so far away unless I was already set up with a way to haul motorcycles, which I'm not. My Zero dealer is under 4 miles away, downhill at that, but even before I took it in I would call Ed at af1 who would come and pick it up for me, and deliver it back to my house when it was fixed if I asked him to. He lives a couple blocks away. Naturally, I'm the one on the forum who has never had a single problem with the Zero (2011 S) but who would be the least inconvenienced if I did. Knock on wood. 

[Spires]

Hi Spires.
Where is that sensor located and any idea what it does? Did the cut outs happen in summer or winter temperatures?
I had cut outs on my 2010 and we tried several fixes to no avail. Noow want to understand in case 2011 has them.

It's a square, blue in color sensor.. I believe it senses current. They told me what it was exactly but I can't remember.. Mine was cutting into the wire that goes from the motor to the controller. It's down at the bottom of the bike between the motor and the controller on the 2011 models. The temp outside or within the bike never had any effect on it. It was either picking up some other field or the layout on that wire is just too flakey.. They sent me a new one in case I needed to swap it out but before I did, I slid it down the cable a ways, wrapped the cut part in electrical tape. Then attached it to part of the plate between the controller and where the charger would sit. It cannot move at all and it completely solved my cutting out. I can torture that bike something fierce in the dirt and no issues at all..

[kcoplan]

Thanks for the advice DKW.  Well, seems like I am already committed to buying the bike - just hope that they figure out  the problem with Jpaulus' bike before I rack up enough miles to have the "glitch" myself.

Renting a van twice every time I need repair service could get expensive quickly.  Our Prius is already pretty scratched up from bicycles and other gear, so I am not worried about that.  I was thinking two or three people might be able to lay a Zero down gently on a piece of plywood on 2x4s, and lift and slide to get the weight into the car.

Another option might be one of those trailer hitch tow-dollies - my son's car has a trailer hitch.  Has anyone tried towing a Zero with one of these?  Would it damage the motor or the belt to spin the rear wheel 60 miles with the bike turned off? I wonder if I could get a hitch put on our Prius - they are not meant to tow, but this would be very light duty towing . . .

[Richard230]

I have hauled my GPR-S around in my daughter's Subaru station wagon a few times.  What I do is to place a plastic tarp inside the car to protect its finish. Then I get some large pieces of cardboard and lay that down.  The cardboard will protect the bike's finish and allow you to slide the bike in and out of the car easily, as it slides over the plastic tarp like it was greased.  Two people can lever the bike into the cargo area, but it is a lot easier with three people.

[protomech]

Zero will eventually fix the glitch problem, I have 95% confidence in them. (The other 5% is that they don't / cannot fix it, and it sinks them as a company).

The big thing I worry about is that this seems to worsen with age, and some owners might not discover it until after the 2 year warranty runs out.

[Electric Terry]

Zero will eventually fix the glitch problem, I have 95% confidence in them. (The other 5% is that they don't / cannot fix it, and it sinks them as a company).

The big thing I worry about is that this seems to worsen with age, and some owners might not discover it until after the 2 year warranty runs out.

I think something like this they will fix the issue on all the bikes, regardless of how long it's been.  I had a car 12 years old and I got a notice to have my O-rings on my fuel injectors replaced on the car for free at the dealer because it could cause a fire from leaking gasoline.  Total 3 cars had fires out of 60,000+ sold.  And no one was ever hurt.  

With this potentially causing an accident from a rider not being able to get out of the way, and already a lot more than 3 bikes that have it and it seems another couple each week as they start to get more mileage on them, I'm positive they will figure out what the issue is and have all the bikes get the "fix" whether they have symptoms or not.

Because of the the widespread knowledge from the CEO through the whole company, if they didn't issue a recall and someone got killed 6 months from now from a first time occurance happening pulling out into rush hour and the bike cutting off, there's no way any company could be relieved of negligence.

Legally they have to tell everyone that knowingly has the issue, not to ride the bike anymore until they can figure out what it is and fix it.  Zero told me that almost a month ago and I understand completely why.  There have been some crazy hairy situations I've been in when it cuts out, even though I have grown to always expect it.  Last night when it cut out and the trouble is resetting the key cuts out the back light, and a driver came rushing up on me and didn't see me till the last second when the rear light came on and I flashed my back light as fast as I could.  There was no shoulder to pull off on for another 100-200 feet.  I was literally out of options.  i say that as the bike operated flawless again for another 150-200 miles, and then in the period of an hour does it to me 30 times.  i just can't figure it out.

But Protomech because of the potential for severy innjury from this one I can guarantee a recall, so the 2 year warranty won't matter to those who don't ride a lot.  The wording will be the same or similar as the BMS recall which was: "SUDDEN LOSS OF POWER CAN LEAD TO A CRASH AND POTENTIAL INJURY OR DEATH TO THE RIDER." which of course is exactly what this is.  Sorry for the all caps, that was just a cut and paste from the nhtsa page for the zero bms recall.

Speaking of, I believe the BMS getting wet was probably not the cause or only cause of the earlier cutouts.  It was the same issue we all still trying to figure out now.  But to be safe and do the right thing they issued the recall anyway.  Do we know of anyone who had cut outs, had the BMS replaced and then never had a cut out again???

I'm hoping we're less than a week away from getting to the bottom of this one.  Jpaulus, do they have your bike this week to look at further?  Protomech is yours on the way?  ColoPaul? what's the update at your dealer?  Are they finally sending it back to Zero too?  I might try a controller swap next just to see.  At this point trying anything is better than nothing.

[protomech]

My bike was loaded on a truck Friday .. probably will arrive at Zero HQ sometime late this week.

[ColoPaul]

I had my talk with Mr. Walker (Zero CEO) today.  Of course I brought up my service experience and the 'glitch'.
I have good news to report:

Mr Walker mentioned he had a meeting with his engineering team this morning (8/13) emphasizing the importance of getting to the bottom of the issue.  He said they have a user's bike there (is it jpaulus's?) and they are investigating.  Clearly protomech's bike is also on the way.

For my particular situation, my dealer reported they have the BMS board in, and Mr. Walker had someone at Zero call me and assure me that they will have the dealer not only swap the BMS board, but upgrade the motor controller SW and recalibrate the bike - and that if the 'glitch' continues to let them know asap.

I hope to be back on the road this week!  After riding my 630 pound BMW around for a month I wonder what shifting back to the Zero will be like?   

[jpaulus]

I've been contacted by Zero to arrange shipment of my bike back to the factory "to get it fixed": a welcomely optimistic point of view.  My bike exibits the problem easily so hopefully it will be useful to them.

[Electric Terry]

Mr Walker mentioned he had a meeting with his engineering team this morning (8/13) emphasizing the importance of getting to the bottom of the issue.  He said they have a user's bike there (is it jpaulus's?) and they are investigating.  Clearly protomech's bike is also on the way.

Wait, jpaulus's isn't there yet, right?  Who's bike do they have that has the "glitch".  Anyone from this forum? 

I just crossed 7500 miles yesterday and the good news is from 6000 miles it doesn't seem to be progressing.  Although it still does it intermittedly, I feel it occurs less since I moved the harness, but then again, perhaps it's wishful thinking.  Hollywood electrics has successfully performed a sevcon upgrade to the size 6.  660 boost amps versus 420 that we all have now. 

I feel the controller being overloaded is part of the reliability issue, especially for those of us with a lot of miles who often go full throttle away from every stoplight and do a lot of highway riding at the bikes max speed.  I'm hoping within a week I can report if this fixes it or not.  If it does, than it is the controller that is bad and perhaps took many thermal expansions and contractions to exhibit problems inside.  if not, well, I'll have bike that accelerates a little better before it cuts out, lol.

Hopefully Zero figures something before next week as well.  I just wish they would communicate with all of us better instead of having us try to perform fixes on our own because it's too dangerous to not do anything and just keep waiting and not hearing anything from them.  The fact they sent Jpaulus's bike out with a recalibration makes me think they're not sure what it is yet.  One way or the other we're gonna get to the bottom of this soon.

[jpaulus]

My bike is to be picked up tomorrow and taken back to the factory which isn't that far away.  I'm told that there are two known solutions to this problem and the service done to my bike at a local shop apparently didn't solve it for my bike.  I was told that "the issue is tied to the controller and motor synchronization."