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[Pard]

https://www.visordown.com/news/honda-releases-new-ev-fun-teaser-more-info-arriving-september-2

"Honda is moving forward with its large-capacity electric motorcycle range, as it confirms that its EV Fun Concept will be getting a full reveal on September 2.

The bike was first shown to the world at EICMA last year. It shared the stage with another battery-powered bike, the EV Urban Concept, although it was Honda’s refreshingly wild V3 concept that stole all the limelight - and the headlines! "

Looks like it is only a 60 mile range bike per the article.  Not in the same category or class as Energica, but will compete with the LiveWire S2

[princec]

So ... Honda, with all the speed and grace of a crippled elephant, spring into action gracefully to compete with a motorcycle that is already cratering in sales expectations. Brilliant.

Only Zero and Energica seemed to understand the market. And Zero has gone a bit off the rails for the last few years and Energica, er, went bust.

Cas

[Stonewolf]

In before: swappable batteries dictating format, low voltage system precluding rapid charging, and a hyper-focus on mass over capability limiting battery capacity.

It's a compliance vehicle.

[Specter]

Probably some global warming bs, look were green too!

mid range entry bike maybe? but still it'll probably tap 10 to 12k price which for something in that range will turn folks off.

they said CCS2 fast charging, i can't see how it's going to be any faster really with a battery that small, they can only put in so many C rate, so it's not like you can juice it with 100 amps in 10 minutes.  Well you can but the battery won't last a few years.  Still though, that might be just to open up more places to charge, so you are not stuck with just wall chargers, you can use the commercial ones and not just J plugs.

CCS2 also implies it's probably not going to be released into the states first as most of ours is CCS1, NACS so that will cut down on the available stations.

be interesting what it's top end might be.  If it does not have a hell of a lot of range but can hit 100 mph or so, this might be a fun toy for track days, or just little running around town.  Lets be honest, even though Energica went with the Experia and it's an awesome bike, Touring on an E bike is not mainstream yet, you need to plan that one carefully and most touring bikes tend to be a couch on wheels, so I don't think they really have long distances in mind.  Maybe for the apartment dweller, who can't really plug in at home easily, go back and forth to work and every day or so, stop at the charging station to top off before heading home.

Aaron

[Stonewolf]

Likely they said CCS2 because they were at EICMA and I think the reporting is from a British outlet. You do need a certain minimum voltage for CCS and I wonder if what was actually said is Type 2 which is the standard AC plug over here. As to whether there's a point to putting DC charging on a bike with only 60 miles of range, that's not a lot worse a small battery Energica.

Which makes me wonder, my 60% leg range is roughly 70 miles, if that's what they're quoting as 60 that'd give them maybe 100 miles total so something like 15kWh potentially. I doubt it though.

[Specter]

that's what i was thinking too.
type / level 2 in the USA would be your 240 volt, which would be normal power in eu.  fast chargers, ie direct DC is lv 3 and 4 and minimum volts is 100 volts.  That's high voltage and falls into an entirely different class of vehicle.  it could not charge a lower volt battery, unless they put in some sort of goofy power conversion, to step it down just so they CAN use the commercial chargers but id see that as being a nightmare to get to work property.  15 kw would add a lot of weight too, and price.  if i am riding a mid range bike, i don't want the damned thing weighing what a liter bike would.  At least with  Energica, the power level of the bike matches it's higher weight, it's a high end high hp, high torque bike.

some more food for thought.  ok they come out with a bike that has a 60 mile range, but cost 10k or so?  nothing really super imo.  unless this thing can do a buck 25, and be some contention on the track, why spend that kind of money when i can get a scooter for half the price, with essentially the same specs?  some of these scoots can do 70 to 80 mph, so work on the highway just fine.

aaron

[Grauteufel]

Nah, It'll be A2 compliant (47hp), and around the 7-9kwh battery at 100ish volts.

[Specter]

it's lowest voltage can't be below 100 or it will never fast charge.  unless that's a play on words and they mean, it charges fast,  .vs. a true DC l3 or 4 fast charge.

ive seen some 48v batteries weigh about 160 lbs that are 10 kwh and can push 300 ish amps continuously, in fact just recently rebuilt one.  personally i don't like those high amp claims, thru the form factors they have for the lugs, that thing will never hold 300 amps for long without btfu.  but anyways, depending on what they want, there are plenty of sizes and configurations of batteries out there now they could plug and play w/o having to design something proprietary. 2 of them in series can put you about 100 volts and still be within the dielectric parameters of the cells.

aaron

[Grauteufel]

They use the term "fast charge" for higher levels of L2 charging, ie 1.9kw single phase vs 6.9kw three phase

"BMW CE 04. In this process, the status display informs you about the current charge status at any time. At 2.3 kW your scooter will then charge from 0% to 80% in three and a half hours. You can even speed things up considerably more by using the optional quick charger. At up to 6.9 kW and with the maximum charge current the same charging process will then take a mere 65 minutes."

[Stonewolf]

Nah, It'll be A2 compliant (47hp), and around the 7-9kwh battery at 100ish volts.

That's more or less what I expect

[karlh]

Per SAE J1772, the minimum voltage for Level 3 DC fast charging is now 50 volts.

[Specter]

karlh could you please share where you got that info from about the 50 volts?
j1772 is a type of plug, and it's typically used for AC charging.  it supplies AC .. basically mains.  as low as 115 volt in the us or 240 us, and elsewhere to the vehicle as AC and the vehicle has a charger that converts that to DC.

L3 fast charging, supplies DC directly to the vehicle.  i looked in a few places and it's showing the minimum voltage as being 200 volts up to 1000 volts.  This surprised me, as my charger starts at 100 volts, so i assumed that was the basement, it turns out i guess they customized my charger and the standard range for L3 charging is 200 volts min and 1000 volts max. NOT 100 volts as i initially stated, so apologies for that.

i was incorrect earlier when i said it went down to 100 volts, it appears the industry standard is a min of 200 volts.

The only thing that recently changed really is that the standard supports HIGHER voltages now up to 1000 volts to support platforms like the ultium, but there is nothing ive found saying 50 volts.

Thank you
Aaron

[Specter]

Ladies and gentlemen:
ive been looking for information on the 50 volt standard that was just mentioned, and grok spit this out to me concerning J plugs.
++++++++++++++++++++++

2. How J1772_202401 Supports 80A with a 50A NEMA 14-50
Your question about how 80A is possible with a NEMA 14-50’s 50A rating highlights a key distinction between the standard’s maximum capability and the outlet’s limitation. Here’s the explanation:

J1772_202401 Maximum: The standard allows Level 2 charging up to 80A at 208–240V, enabling high-power charging (e.g., 19.2 kW) for vehicles with robust onboard chargers (e.g., Tesla Model S/X or Ford F-150 Lightning, which support 11.5–19.2 kW). This is achieved through:

Hardwired Installations: Many Level 2 chargers (e.g., Wallbox Pulsar Plus, ChargePoint Home Flex) can be hardwired to a 60A, 80A, or 100A circuit instead of using a plug like NEMA 14-50. For example, a 100A circuit (derated to 80A continuous) supports the full 80A at 240V, delivering 19.2 kW.
Higher-Rated Outlets: Some installations use outlets like NEMA 14-60 (60A) or NEMA 6-80 (80A), though these are less common than NEMA 14-50. A 60A circuit supports up to 48A continuous (11.5 kW), and an 80A circuit supports up to 64A (15.4 kW).


NEMA 14-50 Limitation: A NEMA 14-50 outlet is capped at 50A (40A continuous), so it cannot support the full 80A allowed by J1772_202401. Chargers with NEMA 14-50 plugs are typically configured for 32A or 40A to comply with NEC derating. For example:

The Emporia Level 2 charger delivers 40A (9.6 kW) with a NEMA 14-50 plug but can reach 48A (11.5 kW) when hardwired to a 60A circuit.

============================

Can anyone else spot the problem here??

Aaron

[princec]

CCS2 is supposed to be down to 150VDC but most older stations are 200VDC. So in practice, 200.

Cas

[Stonewolf]

Yeah from what I could find when I looked into it the CCS standard supports down to 150 but good luck finding a charger that implements less than 200.