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Author Topic: Competition coming?  (Read 18671 times)

DonTom

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Re: Competition coming?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2025, 09:09:29 PM »

Yeah from what I could find when I looked into it the CCS standard supports down to 150 but good luck finding a charger that implements less than 200.
Label from EV-Go CCS charger at Incline Village, NV (NE Lake Tahoe):
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Specter

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Re: Competition coming?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2025, 09:40:08 PM »

i went right to the sae standard.  Prior 2017, i had to dig in the archives,  volts were from 50 to 500 volts at 100 amps.  in October 2017 they changed this to be from 0 to 1000 volts 1000 amps, this was to accommodate the higher voltage platforms like the Ultium, and porche's new models,  but then later on, decided that 0 volts was 'problematic' and quietly changed it to what it is today 200 volts - 1000 volts, which is what the standard currently is today.

=======

As it currently stands, here is the most up to date J1772 standard

Key Features of SAE J1772-2021  *** Notice the last edition is year 2021 ***

AC Charging Levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, single-phase, up to 16 A (1.92 kW). Typically used for residential charging with standard outlets.
AC Level 2: 208–240 V, single-phase, up to 80 A (19.2 kW). Common for home, workplace, and public charging stations.


DC Charging Levels (via Combined Charging System, CCS):

DC Level 1: Supports lower-power DC charging, typically at 200–450 V and up to 80 A (up to 36 kW). Used for smaller EVs or less demanding applications.
DC Level 2: High-power DC fast charging, supporting 200–1,000 V and up to 400 A (up to 400 kW). Designed for fast charging at public stations, accommodating modern high-voltage EV battery systems.


This is where it gets confusing.  In general, they kind of mish mashed this together and say there are 4 levels of charging. So with that, these are terms WE commonly see, and what they mean.

Level 1 - AC input typically 120 VAC
Level 2 - AC input typically 208 or 240 VAC, what your mains is feeding it.
AC is what is going into your vehicle, your vehicle converts it to DC onboard and then feeds that DC to the battery.

Level 3 - DC input 200 volts to 1000 volts
Level 4 - DC input 200 volts to 1000 volts.
DC is what is going into your vehicle, from there it goes right to the battery.


This DC is initially Fed from AC, it comes off your Mains as AC, at whatever voltage you are feeding it, 240 V / 480 V and ive seen 600 V, either single or 3 phase AC.  This AC is turned into DC OUTSIDE your vehicle and sent to the vehicle as DC.

Level 1 is rated to 16 Amps AC max, since that is the max your plug can handle a 20 amp plug derated to 80 percent for continuous use
           is pretty much a USA thing.

Level 2 is rated to 40 Amps AC IF it is feeding off a Nema 14-50 Plug (50 amp derated 20 percent for continuous use)
Level 2 is rated to 80 Amps AC IF it is hard wired into a 100 Amp circuit breaker.

Level 3 is rated to 80 Amps DC - Typically lower power chargers, like you would have at your home or work place.
Level 4 is rated to 400 Amps DC - This would be your high power charging stations, your commercial superchargers.

NOTE 1:  Although L3 was listed as 450 volts since it was for 'smaller applications' the standard goes to 1000 volts and they have been making the chargers able to go up to 1000 volts, because of the higher voltage platforms out there, so yes you can still charge them at home.

NOTE 2:  Although the standard may go up to 80 Amps for a L3 charger, this does not mean YOUR charger goes up to that range, consult the manufacturer to see what YOUR equipment does.  Also, this max, refers to the chargers MAX out put at MAX parameters.  Chargers are Amp limited.  A 20 kw charger will give you 1000 volts at 20 Amps.  If your battery is only running at 400 volts, then YOU get 400 volts X it's 20 Amps, which is 400 x 20 or only 8kw. Keep this in mind when selecting which equipment to buy.

Key Take Away:  The standard changes often as conditions change.  Just because it's basement is 200 volts now, there is NO reason to think they would not lower it back to zero volts again or something similar, if a proliferation of lower volt platforms suddenly started flooding the scene, like the 48 volt bikes hitting the markets now.  Just don't expect massive KW charging rates, the cables would be massive and it would far exceed any C rate the battery could safely handle.

This is the most up to date information I was able to find and put together here.  Hopefully it helps clear up some misconceptions.
The language they use gets foggy, and often times 'sources' are flat out wrong, or severely outdated. 

If anyone finds any verifiable errors with this, please let us know so I can correct this.  Instead of just bitching about what garbage wiki is, im going to do something about it and actually post accurate info.

Aaron
« Last Edit: August 01, 2025, 09:48:06 PM by Specter »
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szczur333

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Re: Competition coming?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2025, 06:29:51 PM »

check out REZON BOHEMIA

it has 20 or 22 or 24S pack ,dont remember exactly, but the point is its below 100V

and it has ability to charge with CCS (7kW)

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ElectricRebel

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Re: Competition coming?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2025, 08:06:43 PM »

check out REZON BOHEMIA

it has 20 or 22 or 24S pack ,dont remember exactly, but the point is its below 100V

and it has ability to charge with CCS (7kW)

It's not true CCS.
The bikes "AC" charger takes upwards of 200V of DC and converts it down to the 88-100V of the Rezon.
Pretty simple, but the same Porsche does for the Taycan on 400V DC stations, an internal converters boosts the voltage up to 800....
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Specter

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Re: Competition coming?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2025, 09:53:34 PM »

Typically those AC chargers are 'universal' they have a wide input range generally from like 100 vac up to 280 or 300 vac.  They do this so that they can use a one size fits all that will work in plugs all over the world no matter what mains you run, 210 / 240 overseas, 120 / 240 american or 277 if you are running it on the wild leg of a Y setup.

Also as mentioned they can step it up to huge voltages as needed to actually charge the pack.

The CCS part, really is just the 2 additional DC plugs on the bottom, the top 5 are actually a J plug, they typically only call it CCS after the 2 DC plugs are added on, it still uses the J plug's wires for communication though so both are needed together for CCS to work.  They were at one time toying with using PLC for the comms but it was having issues so they put that on hold.

Aaron
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