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[Stonewolf]

From what I've seen supercaps are a dead end for main power storage in an automotive context. Solid state is basicly ready to go and is mainly being held back by fabrication limitations, there are a few companies making actual production cells in low volumes but they're not going out to retail, they're being shipped off to various firms that have an interest so they can prepare the products into which those cells will go when mass production ramps up. My understanding is that tooling is the holdup due to the precise environmental control required in the manufacturing process. Nevertheless those cells have full spec sheets, the details are out there if you're willing to do some research or have the contacts to ask.

Solid state will get you between 70 and 100% more gravimetric capacity and about 40% more volumetric capacity. If you could find cells in the right form factor you could get about a 30kWh battery in the same box as a Ribelle with something like a 20 to 30 kg weight drop. That'd give you a range over 80% of the battery roughly equivalent to running ICE hyper nakeds down to fuel light (Tuono V4s and MT-10s are only getting 130ish miles). The caveat being that doesn't apply on the motorway but the bread and butter use case for those bikes isn't on the motorway either.

[Fran K]

From what I've seen supercaps are a dead end for main power storage in an automotive context. Solid state is basicly ready to go and is mainly being held back by fabrication limitations, there are a few companies making actual production cells in low volumes but they're not going out to retail, they're being shipped off to various firms that have an interest so they can prepare the products into which those cells will go when mass production ramps up. My understanding is that tooling is the holdup due to the precise environmental control required in the manufacturing process. Nevertheless those cells have full spec sheets, the details are out there if you're willing to do some research or have the contacts to ask.

Solid state will get you between 70 and 100% more gravimetric capacity and about 40% more volumetric capacity. If you could find cells in the right form factor you could get about a 30kWh battery in the same box as a Ribelle with something like a 20 to 30 kg weight drop. That'd give you a range over 80% of the battery roughly equivalent to running ICE hyper nakeds down to fuel light (Tuono V4s and MT-10s are only getting 130ish miles). The caveat being that doesn't apply on the motorway but the bread and butter use case for those bikes isn't on the motorway either.

I read it but solid state and semi solid state seem to be getting used interchangeably lately.  The latest cells in a Stark claim to be 242 kw/kg. A 2170 form factor. 

Molicel INR-21700-P45B

[wadejesu]

Wonder if Energica will notify current bike owners of the situation at what their plans are? Or just leave everybody hanging

[Motoproponent]

Wonder if Energica will notify current bike owners of the situation at what their plans are? Or just leave everybody hanging

The plan is to lay everyone off and sell all the things. Any "plans" for the future will be up to the new buyer or buyers.

We already have been left hanging. None of us will ever get the centerstand we bought and none of us will get the benefit of the battery warranty we paid for.

I don't need to wonder if I'm going to get an individual email from Energica.

I'm just going to ride my bike, man.

[Stonewolf]

From what I've seen supercaps are a dead end for main power storage in an automotive context. Solid state is basicly ready to go and is mainly being held back by fabrication limitations, there are a few companies making actual production cells in low volumes but they're not going out to retail, they're being shipped off to various firms that have an interest so they can prepare the products into which those cells will go when mass production ramps up. My understanding is that tooling is the holdup due to the precise environmental control required in the manufacturing process. Nevertheless those cells have full spec sheets, the details are out there if you're willing to do some research or have the contacts to ask.

Solid state will get you between 70 and 100% more gravimetric capacity and about 40% more volumetric capacity. If you could find cells in the right form factor you could get about a 30kWh battery in the same box as a Ribelle with something like a 20 to 30 kg weight drop. That'd give you a range over 80% of the battery roughly equivalent to running ICE hyper nakeds down to fuel light (Tuono V4s and MT-10s are only getting 130ish miles). The caveat being that doesn't apply on the motorway but the bread and butter use case for those bikes isn't on the motorway either.

I read it but solid state and semi solid state seem to be getting used interchangeably lately.  The latest cells in a Stark claim to be 242 kw/kg. A 2170 form factor. 

Molicel INR-21700-P45B

I'm refering only to pure solid state, semi-solid state seems to be a thing that's being used to shift consumer electronics atm.

[wadejesu]

Maybe HPtuners will include 2 wheel vehicles, same principal.

 https://www.hptuners.com/core-ev/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CORE%20EV%20Announcement%20%28US%29%20%282024-11-05%29&_kx=OS0Pee3gqNF40WKOvmWwVYf-SjUqdIQ23srm6opfnmY.TBic7m

[HoodRichOG]

It's the brain that all these connect to that makes it tricky. Not that it's terribly difficult to reverse engineer it, but it would be time consuming. Maybe it would be simplest to replace it with some cheap Chinese general purpose controller.

I doubt it honestly. Don't the parts all communicate with each other, making them non replaceable by generic components?

Reverse engineering firmware and specialized hardware is incredibly difficult, can you clarify where you got the notion that it isn't?

[most]

To add to that, the bright Belgian coder Hans Capelle contributed a lot by trying to decipher the OBD messages and did not completely succeed. And this was only the plain and simple exercise to fully understand what Energica‘s OBD delivers.

Maybe after all re-engineering is a tiny bit more complex than cleaning & adjusting an old carburetor - and even that not everyone could do in those days…

[jotjotde]

Yeah, I would have trusted Hans Capelle to really delve deep into the bike's software guts, but unfortunately he sold his EsseEsse last year.
Re-engineering of mechanics might seem easy. Re-engineering of software is mostly not doable, you need the code. One example: How you want to find out what the necessary conditions are to get the bike going? OK, there are some switches that need to be engaged or disengaged (kickstand, seat, brake) but what other parameters are checked before the GO light appears? How anyone can say without looking into the actual code?


I am owning my Ribelle for more than 2 years now and never got any direct e-mail from Energica. TBH their direct customer communication was always shitty.

Talked to my dealer yesterday. Currently Energica is totally incommunicado. No one answers e-mails or picks up the phone. Since some weeks my dealer has a brand new bike standing there which suddenly refused to start after some kilometers of successful running and they do not know what to do. Compared to e.g. car dealerships they did not get the full diagnostics capabilities necessary to really find all errors. The buyer gave back the bike under lemon law and now my dealer has the shitty end of the stick.

[Beauceron]

My dealer has currently 3 of those; two Evo and one Experia. He is currently at the EICMA I am tensed about his report.

[Specter]

So, when something is behind an encryption you can just read it like that correct?
Without the codes to be able to get past passwords, I don't think you'll be too successful.
Just because you may be able to read software, do you know fully how it works?  What it does, what it needs to run, stuff like that.
If it was that easy to just hack into something and make one yourself, then it'd have been done many times over, over many years, with many different items.

Like hell I am going to pay apple 1200 for a shitty phone, I have a friend with a RS 232 port who says he can reverse engineer the code in it, ill make my own for a few hundred dollars !!    afterall, they are made in china so the parts are easy to get because of that now right?

Aaron

[PWM]

The VCU, BMS, Charger and Traction Drive all communicate CAN bus.

Why not start here...

https://www.csselectronics.com/pages/can-bus-sniffer-reverse-engineering

[Specter]

The specific algo is proprietary.   Your computer talks via protocols, and general ethernet protocol... but it's all encrypted for privacy and protection right?  Just because i have a network card does not mean I can read your communications, unless I work for the CIA or something.

Aaron

[Grauteufel]

The software/firmware is encrypted/uses proprietary code, but my understanding is they have release the software to the principal dealers to continue support customers without Energica involvement

Edited the with to without

[Grauteufel]

That is what I have heard. Where previously energica Italy had to remote in to a pc to inspect the bike, now the dealers can do so directly.