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Author Topic: SR/S or Ego/Eva?  (Read 8281 times)

MrMogensen

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SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« on: April 30, 2021, 02:34:48 PM »

First post here...
Been on the 600riders forum (Yamaha) for a very long time but since I am not longer interested in ICE bikes... moving on.

I am in doubt... do I want the Zero SR/S or en Energica Eva/Ego? Oh boy these 1st world problems are tough!

Background...
Have had my Yamaha FZ6 since 2008 - my only bike. Primarily its a daily commute from April-October ish (sometimes a bit more). Rarely ride just for fun. Every 4-5 years I take an advanced track course.
Last year we bought a Tesla Model 3 Long Range. Shortly after a homecharger. This has somewhat ruined most of the joy of having my FZ6. It's still a great ride but just not the same. Feels almost silly to startup the bike in front of the house when there is such an epic EV standing there besides is... I really want an EV bike!

Clearly I think the SR/S seems like the obvious choice. Quite similar to FZ6. I have a home AC charger never any problem slowcharging for the daily commute. Most little sunday rides with fiancé on the back are maybe 150 +/- km?

But that damn italian Eva (maybe Ego) really seems annoyingly fun. But maybe I have too little use of it's advantages?

Testrode an SR/F yesterday. Really simple. Felt surprisingly light. Asked about service and, just like with Tesla, there is no fuss with service stamps in a book - just recommendations and free softwareupdate once a year. They have a grey SR/S at the dealer (but only allowed testriding the SR/F). I love the look of the SR/S - soo well designed. Closer inspection revealed that parts of it seems pretty cheapskate. Maybe my expectations are too high and a Energica would be same. Seat on the SR/F felt alright but SR/S felt terrible - I guess there is a fix for that?

Have never seen a Ego/Eva in real life. Nearest dealer is 150 km away (in Sweden) and trying to setup a testride soon.
The italians seem to involve alot more maintenance. Not more than I am used to with the FZ6 but then again... do I bother? Difference is that I have done all maintenance myself for the past 10 years. The Energica needs "service stamps" for the 5 year warranty to last.
Not that worried about chaindrive as I would, like on the Zero, install a Scottoiler.

The CCS charging is an absolute winner. Can't believe that Zero still haven't figured it out. Yes I would rarely need it but without DC fast charging I can kiss any trackday goodbuy on the Zero. At Denmarks biggest track they are setting up DC fast chargers - others will follow.

Have read horrorstories about the Energica being extremely inneficient. Is there any thruth behind it - compared to a Zero?

Any input would be highly appreciated. I am sorry if this particular subject have alread been answered 120 times?
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Former Yamaha FZ6 (since 2008) now sold and find myself wanting a Ribelle.

princec

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2021, 03:13:39 PM »

I can give you the SR/F owner's experience (2000 miles in 2 months from new).

I use it just to whiz about on with nowhere particular in mind. I don't personally have a car any more - my wife's got the only car - so it's my main transport. If we currently had an office to commute to, that's what I'd be using it for, a 50 mile (80km) round trip on twisty little roads. I've tested the commute and it uses 50% of the battery so I don't even need to bother charging it at work.

In the last 2000 miles I've been all over the place, to all the places and routes I used to ride on my many, many ICE bikes of all different shapes and sizes, and it was a bit of an eye-opener as to how I actually use a bike, because in all that time I've never had to use a public charger. I did - once - charge it up at a friend's house who owns a Tesla - but that's because it was 65 miles away and only 4 degrees C outside so I arrived with just 15% battery remaining. Now in the onset of summer the range looks to be a smidge over 100 miles (160km) or so. Most of my riding is on 30mph roads / back lanes / sweepy A-roads, almost no motorway stuff at all.

The SR/F is way, way lighter than the Energicas. I can push the SR/F around up and down hills. I'm 183cm (6' ish) tall, and reasonably strong but by no means buff or fit in any way, and I could barely move an SS9 off the side of the road when it (ahem..) broke down.

The quality of the Energica's components is somewhat higher than the Zero, but that's essentially the difference in what you're paying for. The SR/F is much, much cheaper, but not shoddy. Feel free to put a fancier shock and fork internals in it, and replace all the nuts and bolts with titanium.

Things I love about the SR/F:

1. Belt drive. So far, absolutely no maintenance, and really quiet. One of the best bits, IMHO.
2. Reasonable weight and very low seat height. I can manage it.
3. Well-designed, clear, functional, grown-up dash (though the control could be more slick).
4. Headlight. Good throw, bright, easily adjusted.
5. Range. 70-110 miles (110-170km) realistic range depending on temperature and speed. I get 100 miles regularly. I'm not very fast though.
6. Sound. The sound is quiet, but not silent, and the sound it makes is actually very pleasing yet it bothers absolutely nobody else as you ride past them.
7. Price. But I got £3000 off mine because it was an ex-demo.
8. The tank-hole. That is a seriously useful hole. Though I may fill it with a 6KW charge tank.
9. Speed. It's seriously fast, easily faster than I ever need to go. I've even set a restriction on it so it won't go over 75mph (120kmh). I reaches that speed quicker than I can really process.
10. Heated grips. The Zero heated grips are very good, on a par with BMW.
11. So far, not one single problem.

With a full 12KW of charging capacity installed it can be filled up in just over an hour from the very commonly available 22KW AC chargers that are everywhere, so it might not be so onerous at the track as you think. It will take you half a morning to run it flat by which time you'll be needing a proper rest anyway.

Things that are not so good in no particular order.

1. Premium model has 6KW of charging installed but at home it only uses half of it unless you give it 3-phase power! Which almost nobody has at home in the UK because it costs several thousand quid to have installed.
2. Handling is best described as OK. It is little odd feeling because, I suspect, of a lack of gyroscopic forces from a big crank, and a fairly agressively front-biased weight distribution. The SR/S I believe has nicer setup for the suspension though. I might try softening mine off a bit.
3. The Android app & on-board software is a little janky.
4. The SR/F is really quite tiny, and scrunches me up a little too much. Fortunately as it only does 100 miles this isn't as bad as it sounds.
5. I would have loved CCS charging.
6. As the battery runs down, it gets less and less powerful. (The Energicas do this, too). AIUI, only the LiveWire delivers close to 100% for its entire range though. Be interesting to see them all dynoed at different charges. The last 10% of the indicated SOC is actually a limp mode.

So... that's one perspective.

Cas :)
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Gains

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2021, 03:55:33 PM »

I tested the energica ego and eva and for me they where way too heavy. After the testrides I looked for the exact weight of the bikes in the specifications but never found it. They have a button on the handlebar that makes the bike go slowly backwards, you really need it.
They also have a shorter range then expected considering the capacity of the battery. I think the energica is less efficient than the zero. On the other hand, the energica can charge much quiker (if the chargingstation is powerfull enough.)
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MrMogensen

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2021, 04:26:51 PM »

Thanks for the replies!!

If Zero SR/S then I would go for the Premium model (with heated grips and 6KW AC charger). It annoys be that the "glove compartment" is ruined if I want faster charging. Energicas setup with faster DC and slower AC is extremely convenient.

I already have a 3 phase AC charger at my house :)
Denmark is slowly but steadily being piled up with public DC chargers (besides Teslas). Circle K (gas stations) are for example slowly setting up 300KW DC stations - yes I know Energicas "only" charge with 20KW.
At the most popular track I would quickly have problems with the Zero. Wanting as much power available but not able to use the CCS plug from the fastcharger...  :o

About weight. I am 182cm and fairly fit (not heavy). Also slightly worried about the extra weight on the Energicas but I just need to test it out.

It is annoying that Energicas (supposedly) are less efficient. Having that more expensive larger 21,5 kWh helps alot.
If I compare it to my Model 3 Long Range (realistic everyday range)...

1800 kg EV:
480 km / 75 kWh = 6,4 km/kWh

Energica (pure guessing):
200 km / 21,5 kWh = 9,3 km/kWh

Zero SR/S:
160 km / 14,5 = 11,03 km/kWh

Those bikes... how can they not achieve more than that? On the other hand my FZ6 only gets around 18-20 km/L... my Fiat Grande Punto 1,4 T-jet was even close to that. Some bikes are just setup for more fun :)
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Former Yamaha FZ6 (since 2008) now sold and find myself wanting a Ribelle.

princec

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2021, 06:47:20 PM »

Well, firstly, because they don't actually have the stated capacity - the 14.4KWh unit actually only has ~12KWh of usable charge in the 100...0% range. And secondly of course because bikes fly through the air in exactly the same way that bricks don't, being a terribly ungainly shape, so cars rapidly meet them on efficiency once the speeds get past motorway limits.

As you have 3-phase power I'd advise getting the SR/S with 6KW charge tank in it, which means you can go out for a morning, come home and charge it up to full in just a lunchtime, then go out all afternoon on it; and if you're ever anywhere where there isn't a DC fast charger installed (that's more or less everywhere that isn't on a highway, at least here anyway) then you'll still be charging up super quick where the Energicas and Harleys will be stuck with their hopelessly slow on board AC charging for hours and hours.

Cas :)
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MrMogensen

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2021, 07:10:09 PM »

You had me laughing at the brick comment  ;D

Well the point of a bike is going the B-roads - like you kind of wrote...

I guess I am now 30/70 in favour of the SR/S Premium. I guess I just have to try out the Italians to see if they are really worth the extra $.
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/// MrMogensen ///
Former Yamaha FZ6 (since 2008) now sold and find myself wanting a Ribelle.

reini

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2021, 07:19:19 PM »

I guess I am now 30/70 in favour of the SR/S Premium. I guess I just have to try out the Italians to see if they are really worth the extra $.

What's the price difference between a SR/S with 12 kW charging and a Eva SS9+ or Ribelle in Denmark? In Austria, the SS9+ was 500 EUR cheaper than the SR/S (which has half the charging speed), so my choice was very easy  8)
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MrMogensen

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2021, 07:38:49 PM »

Danish price for a new SR/S Premium 6kW (excluding chargetank) is DKK 189.900 = EUR 25.500

I would be looking at mobile.de where there are several SR/S that are almost new... and save quite a lot.
Taxes for importing to Denmark should still be low.

Danish price for Energica? There is no official dealer but their website says minimum EUR 29.000 for a Ribelle and then I haven't ticked any boxes.
Again I would scout mobile.de for something gently used.

Another issue is that most used Energicas are red and I don't really like that. Too bad they ditched that pearl white. Would end up giving some extra get the colored parts repaintet. The grey SR/S with darkgold rims is truly good looking.
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Sklith

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2021, 08:16:03 PM »

My reasons for going with Energica instead of Zero are the following:
  • DC Fast Charging
  • Liquid cooled inverter and motor - this is really important if you ever plan on doing track days
  • Premium parts
  • Looks beautiful!
  • Energicas in USA at least, are priced very competitively vs the SR/F & SR/S

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Squelch

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2021, 08:57:43 PM »

If the Zero is cheaper for you, go with that. I ordered an Energica because it was about the same price as a 'comparable' Zero, but the performance was better and DC fast charging is a game changer for longer trips (watch the NewZeroland videos on YouTube for an idea of how it helps). But if you're just going short distances and/or using it as a commuter, a cheaper Zero will be fine. I also think the Energicas look so much better, (Ducati-esque, which makes sense considering their country of origin) but that's personal preference.
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flynnstig82r

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2021, 09:00:00 PM »

I'm surprised the Ribelle costs that much. In the US it starts at $22,400. For such a large difference you might even be better off buying a US model and importing it. I'm just speculating on that, as I don't know what it takes to import an American EM into Denmark.
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Past bikes:
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testdepth

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2021, 09:02:12 PM »

Frankly I'm more of a fan of the Energica.  I've owned both. After a couple thousand miles on both, I find the Energica fit and finish is much better and i love the DC fast charge.  Then again, I ride quite a bit all year round - I tend to put a couple of hundred miles on the bike over the weekend and DC fast charging comes in handy.  I have a level2 (9.6kw) plug at my house - so overnight charging is not problem.  Also, I don't find the Energica to heavy - but then again I've been riding bikes for over 40 years and have owned plenty of heavier bikes - so it doesn't bother me, especially at riding speed.

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Sklith

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2021, 09:08:10 PM »

I'm surprised the Ribelle costs that much. In the US it starts at $22,400. For such a large difference you might even be better off buying a US model and importing it. I'm just speculating on that, as I don't know what it takes to import an American EM into Denmark.

Energica's likely selling at a loss here to stand a fighting chance on Zero's turf.
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MrMogensen

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2021, 10:20:21 PM »

I'm surprised the Ribelle costs that much. In the US it starts at $22,400. For such a large difference you might even be better off buying a US model and importing it. I'm just speculating on that, as I don't know what it takes to import an American EM into Denmark.

I'll not be considering importing from anywhere else than EU. Taxes will be insane (closing up to EU price) and I will most likely not be able to AC charge unless the AC unit (no not the aircondition) is swapped for EU version.

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DonTom

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Re: SR/S or Ego/Eva?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2021, 12:31:29 PM »


I am in doubt... do I want the Zero SR/S or en Energica Eva/Ego? Oh boy these 1st world problems are tough!

That would be a tough choice for me also. :-\

Buy both! That will solve your problem! ;)

The Energica has DCFC and a reverse. Can change regen in any mode. Six traction control settings.

The SR/S can have a center stand and better luggage. Better AC charging, but no DCFC.

You have to decide which features you like the best. A lot of it will be based on where you ride the most.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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