ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard230 on April 04, 2025, 07:31:23 PM
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Nothing good is going to come out of the current tariff war for electric motorcycles, especially with almost all battery cells, electronic components and most chassis components being sourced from Asia. I have a feeling that the supply of new motorcycles in the U.S. is going to be slim pickings for the next few years. Maybe LiveWire will sell a few, but I am not even sure about that. I doubt that Zero will be selling new bikes in the U.S. if they have to raise their prices even further due to tariffs on their bikes and parts. They might just limit sales to countries other than the U.S. until things finally calm down. But I just don't have a clue when that will be. Things seem to be going from bad to worse every day. :(
Your best plan might be to just keep the bike that you have now and try to keep it running and in good shape for as long as you can.
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There's saft a battery plant in georgia, and a few others i cant remember where.. they may not be totally dead and i read a story they are getting ready to open another one up real soon.
taiwan is still on good terms right / plenty come from there too.
livewire has already stated more than once they really want to divest from the u s market and more on the indian market.
time will tell
aaron
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My thought regarding Zero is that they will continue to develop and engineer their new models at their HQ in Scotts Valley, CA, while assembling the bikes in the Philippians. Importing those bikes into the U.S. would make them too expensive to sell in the current U.S. market, even though imports from the Philippians would be charged a lower tariff tax than if the individual components were shipped here from China. Likely Zero will lay low here until thing settle down and (hopefully) blow over in a few years.
But long before that happens I bet that most Zero dealerships in the U.S. will drop the franchise due to lack of product and/or sales. :(
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While individual countries may have new tariffs below 25%, I believe imported motorcycles and motorcycle parts come under the across-the-board 25% tariff.
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While individual countries may have new tariffs below 25%, I believe imported motorcycles and motorcycle parts come under the across-the-board 25% tariff.
Frankly, I am so confused about the tariffs recently announced recently I have no idea if you or I am right. Or it could be both of us. Fully assembled motorcycles might be hit with a 25% tariffs, but their individual parts could be hit with a much larger tariff. I guess we will eventually find out when we go to a Zero showroom (if we can find one in the U.S.) and see the MSRP sticker, or order replacement parts directly from Zero to see if we get sticker shock. ???
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I've not really been taking much notice of the whole tariff thing as it doesn't affect me, could someone give this foreigner a simple rundown? From the little I know it seems like Trump wants to punish foreign companies and keep people buying American, but it seems like it's just screwing over Americans. Even a lot of the American companies, they're getting components or even the entire product from abroad and the extra they have to pay just gets passed onto the customer, just like you guys are talking about. Trying to get by with products made solely in America simply isn't possible, same as many other countries unless it's one of those ones that makes it all for everyone else like China or Japan.
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I've not really been taking much notice of the whole tariff thing as it doesn't affect me, could someone give this foreigner a simple rundown? From the little I know it seems like Trump wants to punish foreign companies and keep people buying American, but it seems like it's just screwing over Americans. Even a lot of the American companies, they're getting components or even the entire product from abroad and the extra they have to pay just gets passed onto the customer, just like you guys are talking about. Trying to get by with products made solely in America simply isn't possible, same as many other countries unless it's one of those ones that makes it all for everyone else like China or Japan.
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Trump says that he wants to make it so expensive for the American consumer, by placing large taxes on all products imported into the county, that consumers will stop buying them and U.S. companies will see an opportunity to manufacturer their own products here. As you say, that is pretty much impossible for a number of reasons. What some people believe is that Trump wants to return to the good old days in the 1800's when there was no income tax and the U.S. government was run using import taxes. That way he can cut (or maybe even eliminate) our national income tax, which would be a big benefit for the richest people in America. So the ones that really get screwed over are the people that are already struggling to pay their bills and have to buy a lot of their daily products from "Dollar Stores" - which sell mostly cheap Chinese food and other products.
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Taiwan has a 32% tariff.
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Taiwan has a 32% tariff.
They don't deserve it. >:( They have enough problems to deal with.
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I've not really been taking much notice of the whole tariff thing as it doesn't affect me, could someone give this foreigner a simple rundown? From the little I know it seems like Trump wants to punish foreign companies and keep people buying American, but it seems like it's just screwing over Americans. Even a lot of the American companies, they're getting components or even the entire product from abroad and the extra they have to pay just gets passed onto the customer, just like you guys are talking about. Trying to get by with products made solely in America simply isn't possible, same as many other countries unless it's one of those ones that makes it all for everyone else like China or Japan.
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Trump says that he wants to make it so expensive for the American consumer, by placing large taxes on all products imported into the county, that consumers will stop buying them and U.S. companies will see an opportunity to manufacturer their own products here. As you say, that is pretty much impossible for a number of reasons. What some people believe is that Trump wants to return to the good old days in the 1800's when there was no income tax and the U.S. government was run using import taxes. That way he can cut (or maybe even eliminate) our national income tax, which would be a big benefit for the richest people in America. So the ones that really get screwed over are the people that are already struggling to pay their bills and have to buy a lot of their daily products from "Dollar Stores" - which sell mostly cheap Chinese food and other products.
It seems so contradictory, he doesn't want people buying foreign but he wants to make more money from people buying foreign. I really do feel bad for you yanks having to put up with a shithead like him, just thank god it's only (hopefully) for four years and then someone better can take over and try and fix things. It still blows my mind that he won, and that he was even allowed to run in the first place as a convicted felon awaiting sentencing.
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It was really disappointing when Zero decided to move production from the local factory near Silicon Valley to the Philippines. That sort of thing is what the tariffs are meant to stop. But even if they were still made here, it wouldn't help because all the parts are foreign. And even if a country drops their tariffs and the US reciprocates, the 10% baseline would still sting. We either continue losing all production capability until we're totally dependent, or take painful steps to reverse course. But even if we reverse course, it'll take years, and a future administration will re-reverse course before it's done. The problem seems intractable.
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It was really disappointing when Zero decided to move production from the local factory near Silicon Valley to the Philippines. That sort of thing is what the tariffs are meant to stop. But even if they were still made here, it wouldn't help because all the parts are foreign. And even if a country drops their tariffs and the US reciprocates, the 10% baseline would still sting. We either continue losing all production capability until we're totally dependent, or take painful steps to reverse course. But even if we reverse course, it'll take years, and a future administration will re-reverse course before it's done. The problem seems intractable.
I won't argue with that. It pretty well sums up the situation as I see it, too.
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The other obvious side effect is that local US producers will simply raise their prices to be at parity with the increased price of foreign goods, because why wouldn't they? If the market will bear a 25% premium on something then the price will inflate to fill the vacuum. The key point being "inflation", which means rocketing costs of stuff.
ON THE OTHER HAND ... it's clearly a very long term gambit that will take a generation to play out: the reason goods from, say, China are so cheap, is because they have an extremely imbalanced cost of labour compared to domestic production. This difference was slowly growing larger and larger. Where the cost of goods manufactured domestically was already subjected to, say, 20% taxation which is taken as income tax from the workers producing the goods, if those goods come from abroad, then not only is the 20% not collected by the govt. at the point of production, the govt. is also competing with what is very likely a workforce paid peanuts and barely taxed anyway.
Uh, unfortunately, the generation that it will play out for is "us".
Cas :)
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For sure it's a nuclear sledgehammer to crack a nut, but I do understand some of the reasoning behind it. Global trade is all very well when everybody is using the same currency and has the same taxation and same living standards, but that's not the case, and it creates a desperately unlevel playing field where whoever stoops the lowest cleans up - which means China, with its famously terrible working conditions and pay.
And not entirely unrelatedly there is the looming issue of national security at a time when the world has become dangerously unstable thanks to the shenanigans of Russia, Israel, and to a lesser extent, China. Can you really rely on China to make, well, everything, if they're not 100% allies?
So... I see some strands of strategy amongst all the bullshit and fuckwittery and random belligerence... even though I have personally just lost 20% of my entire lifes' savings in the last week. (F*CK!!!!) Everything is entirely beyond my control though so all I can do is sit back and watch my fortunes get destroyed while the rich carry on getting more richerer.
Cas :)
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While you might find most U.S. workers willing to assemble electric motorcycles indoors from Chinese parts here, good luck finding any U.S. teenager willing to work in the agriculture or home construction industries - unless they can do so bossing other workers around. (I have a granddaughter that would be good doing that, if you could pry her away from social media. ::) )
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you are going to get a range of answers highly politicised depending on which side of the aisle the person is on.
frankly in trumps eyes, companies tarriff american goods when we sell there, ie you want THEIR product, then pay 50 percent more.
yet they can pour their goods into america and sell like crazy and not get charged an extea dime to do so.
he, and many other Americans do not think that is fair.
he wants to level the playing field, you want to charge 50 percent more for american products to dissuade people from buying them, then we can do the same for your product.
yes there will be some pain, personally i think its a good idea, it has cost america a bunch of money and jobs. Many outside don't see it, or even care, because it's not them getting smashed by it. Now they are getting a taste of what the american manufacturer is up against.
personally, while the theory is sound, I am no sure how well, if i have a 20 percenrt tarriff, why can't i just say ok, ill drop it to zero, ... but then raise the price of my goods 20 percent, so, look, no tarriff, but still same price. THAT though would help the manufacturer out, because they would get the money in the item cost, versus a tarriff, which the govt keeps I believe.
now the governments who have been pillaging the us are having a fit, because the gravy train of us cash to them is being cut essentially.
the people end up paying for it in the long run, because no matter what the name or excuse, any price increase is ALWAYS borne by the customer. Again most people don't give a rats ass about the long run or bigger picture, all they see is higher price, orange man evil.
most people are too emotional and irresponsible to be handling money anyways. if you are a daytrader, now is the time to get rich. you not only know how the sheeple will react, but they are broadcasting it as well. oh YEAH, WELL IM GONNA DO THIS!!!.
Don't know about you but im making mint on the crypto during this kerfluffle and hope it lasts till the end of the year tbh....at this rate, ill rake in another 1 to 1.2 mm by august.
Aaron
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XKCD explaining tariffs. https://xkcd.com/3073
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that is also why this mess is so bad anyways... because government education is so pathetically poor, the kids would actually think that IS the reason for it all. not having a clue about how both sides can make pizza's really... to put it in those terms.
Throw in a huge dose of narcissism with that and nobody gives a rats scrotum about anything but themselves.
I got my weed and wifi, the world can burn down around me, i don't care. blorp blorp blorp. pass the bong man.
for the one complaining about their lifes savings evaporating.... you need to seek financial counselling...seriously....
but on that, just sit tight, in a few weeks, a month ...this corrects and everything is right back where it was.
buy the dip. learn to leave your emotions at home when dealing with money, if you are a woman, yah i know that's a hard ask, but try.
aaron
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Sure everyone can make a pizza, but not to the same quality and price. "Made in the USA" isn't the universal sign of quality it once was and the stuff that is decent is generally way more expensive, just take a look at Snap-On, Harley (well, I suppose that one is debatable when it comes to quality), Zippo, made in the USA New Balance are like double the price. There's a reason I own nothing made in the USA except for my Zero and a couple Zippos, and quite frankly I wouldn't really want anything from there. To me America is just an exporter of resources to be used by other countries.
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The game of tariff chicken continues. China has raised its tariff on U.S. products entering the country to 125% starting tomorrow. China says that this is the last time they will participate in the tariff-raising fun. They say, correctly, that it has become a stupid game. Meanwhile, this is not going to help the price of most electric vehicle batteries and specialized parts.
BTW, the CBS radio news reports that the U.S. dollar is dropping against the Euro, with the value of the Euro rising to $1.30 this morning. That will raise the price of things imported from EU countries, such as certain German and Austrian motorcycles, including cars made in the EU and their replacement parts and accessories.
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Of course china is going to say it's a stupid game, they are losing, and can't win in the long run.
Trump is correct on one thing though. Being reliant on ANY other country, for vital stuff such as medicine etc, is just pure crazy.
NO Country should EVER make itself beholden to another for a critical product.
All of these so called games, fixes this.
IF it causes the prices to rise short term, thats the price you pay for your stupidity for letting yourselves get into that position to begin with.
hanging politicians would be a good start towards fixing the root causes of this stupidity / greed / corruption.
Aaron
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They're hardly losing, it's not like the US is the only country buying from them. And these tariffs fix nothing, they're just going to make Americans poorer or they go without. America isn't suddenly going to be able to cope without Chinese products by being able to make the same stuff at the same price. Like it or not but we are all reliant on China either for the cheap products they can produce or the unique materials they can supply.
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I am not looking forward to the time if I need to replace my 10-old Dell desktop computer due to a failure or because it can not be upgraded to Windows 11 when Windows 10 goes by-by this summer. :(
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if i had my way, id be running windows 7. speaking from an ability to get under the hood, i think 7 was about the best for that, but yah the forced obscelescence is not fun.
i don't think 10 goes bye , just they stop supporting it, meaning they stop putting bugs and spyware on it in the guise of 'upgrades'.
TheRan you are correct, America is hooked on the cheap shit china floods us with. will it work, i think it will. it will hurt a bit, any time someone quits a dependency whether it be drugs, social media, or... china. it will be painful but they will be better for it. You probably disagree, and i respect your right to do so, and well... time will tell here. Either way we all are in for one hell of a ride. one can either sit back and cry about it all, or play the market and profit from it. NO itS not evil to do so, if people want to knee jerk and sell on emotions.... that's their fault. ill gladly cash in on it. I think we both agree there isn't a thing you or i can do to change it...so use it to the best of your advantage. Like I used to tell my men in the navy, you can't beat the system, but you CAN learn how it works, and make it work for you.
aaron
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TheRan you are correct, America is hooked on the cheap shit china floods us with
But that's the thing, it's not just cheap Chinese trash. They make most of the good stuff too and it's the price it is because it's made in China. I dare you to take a look through all your electronics and then try and find American made alternatives, and then to make it even harder at the same price. And out of the few products that won't be made in China I imagine they will still be from countries getting hit with massive tariffs. Now are all of those products necessary? No, you can cope without, but it would be a massive decrease in quality of life.
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TheRan you are correct, America is hooked on the cheap shit china floods us with
But that's the thing, it's not just cheap Chinese trash. They make most of the good stuff too and it's the price it is because it's made in China. I dare you to take a look through all your electronics and then try and find American made alternatives, and then to make it even harder at the same price. And out of the few products that won't be made in China I imagine they will still be from countries getting hit with massive tariffs. Now are all of those products necessary? No, you can cope without, but it would be a massive decrease in quality of life.
You might find this video interesting. The presenter follows your thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jvHF53mdrA&t=8s
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Sadly there have been a few companies that did solar made in the us. they went under because although they cut costs to the bone, china slashed their prices by a few pennies a watt to eventually crush them out, even if it cost them in the short term. This is part of the tactics that the tarriffs are trying to prevent as well. unions are another evil that have made the cost of things unbearable for many. yeah sure if you have a union job it's an absolute gravy train and you will fight for it and lie about your real 'worth' tooth and nail to protect it. Unions have put countless people out of work as well and killed countless companies. Bringing jobs back is only part of the battle. Giving them to union shops is only guaranteeing that the stuff will be unaffordable to the little man. Subsidies are NOT an answer either.
so whether the us strangles itself out via it's corrupt unions, or an outsider like china does it, the end result is the same. lets bring high paying jobs, that just means the products they make are going to be high priced.
at least this way, if the mess is all 'american' ... if america truly wants to fix the problem, it's ALL there, right in their laps to fix.
lets say right now china says fuck you round eye, we stop sending medicine to you !! we can't even produce our own at this point, even at inflated prices. THAT is totally unacceptable, AND totally OUR Fault. It isn't just medicine either. Our own ignorance and apathy led us into this mess, so do we just sit around the stereotypical fat wallowing american slob and let it continue, because... weed and wifi man, it's just easier... or do we start adulting and start fixing the mess we created / allowed to happen?
IT'S not an easy fix, and will require a bit of sacrifice from everyone, but nobody wants to be the one who sacrifices. Everyone wants prices to go down, but NOT THEIR PAYCECKS. I can make a car 1000 cheaper, but the auto workers will need to take a 10/hr paycut. I can make it go down another 1000 but the dealer will need to cut 1000 from his markup.. meaning his employees will have to take a paycut to make ends meet.... i can make it go down another 1000 but you'll have to adjust your own mirrors, and seats, and no fancy radio's and satellites, and climate controls... oh you need to pay cash for it too... that way we don't have to pay the bankers fees and interest etc...
so what's it going to be?
Aaron
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If they want to bring the medicine production to the US then why not just do that, why fuck up everything else just for the sake of sticking it to China? And the fact that another country produces it shouldn't even be a problem, it hasn't been a problem, unless you're someone like America who likes to go around making enemies. You only have to fear another country cutting you off if you give them a reason to, they still want money and they're not going to give that up just to spite you. Medicine is really no different to any other product, and isn't the only one that could be considered "vital". Just take a look at Russia, they invade another country and commit war crimes so everyone else cuts them off. That is all their own fault and could have been avoided if they had simply not been arseholes. They dug their own grave and now they will lie and rot in it because quite frankly, none of us need them. And America isn't in that much of a better position than them especially to someone like China (as shown by them raising their tariffs in retaliation).
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My understanding is that most of our prescription medicine comes from India, not China.
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...........Just take a look at Russia, because quite frankly, none of us need them.
I want a Kalashnikov electric motorcycle.
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...........Just take a look at Russia, because quite frankly, none of us need them.
I want a Kalashnikov electric motorcycle.
That would likely be cheap, reliable and functional, with easily replaceable parts that can be sourced anywhere. ;)
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maybe after Russia rightly regains the ukraine territory they'll settle into a trade deal with the US and you can get those nice and cheap, tarriff free!
Aaron
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ubuntu is very user friendly and yes it's a little bit of a learning curve but once you get used to it linux/ubuntu etxc you'll see that they have all the programs that winblows has and you'll never look back.
a lot fewer virus and security issues as well.
best of all, like he said above you can boot it off a stick or a CD and never have to worry again as it's a brand new install every time you restart your machine
aaron
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+1 for Mint here! Switched permanently last Feb, haven't looked back.
Cas :)
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My son-in-law has been swearing by Linux for years and has been pushing me to install it on my computer for at least that long. But you know how it is with "old dogs". It is really hard to get them to learn, or in this case try, new tricks. :-[
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I am not looking forward to the time if I need to replace my 10-old Dell desktop computer due to a failure or because it can not be upgraded to Windows 11 when Windows 10 goes by-by this summer. :(
If you want something that will be maintained until 2032, I would go with Rocky Linux 9. It was born from CentOS (Which was the free version from Red Hat) and it is used a lot in the industry because is 99.9%
compatible with Red Hat (which is "the" Linux distribution used in the industry). Just look to the compatible distribution of the major software you are interested ....
Giacomo
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I am not looking forward to the time if I need to replace my 10-old Dell desktop computer due to a failure or because it can not be upgraded to Windows 11 when Windows 10 goes by-by this summer. :(
If you want something that will be maintained until 2032, I would go with Rocky Linux 9. It was born from CentOS (Which was the free version from Red Hat) and it is used a lot in the industry because is 99.9%
compatible with Red Hat (which is "the" Linux distribution used in the industry). Just look to the compatible distribution of the major software you are interested ....
Giacomo
Thanks for that tip. I might look into it if Windows 10 starts causing me problems.
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Winblows 10 IS the problem.
Seriously, i totally get the hesitation of having to learn a new os etc etc but they have many similarities, so you'll be going ... oh that's just like windows... only it works and is reliable!! A ton of software out there too, browser, e mail, you name it. in fact many programs already have LINUX/UNIX versions already made so you already know how to use them really.
Aaron
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Isn't it just f-ing wonderful that we have a fascist dictator looking out for our best interests?
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you are free to move to whatever country tickles your marxist fancy! Don't be a prisoner to a country you don't love. I hear canada is still accepting starving artists, or wait, even they want people to have a real job now, too bad they are all in china. just move there, nice friendly to human rights, and plenty of work to be had.
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Well actually no you're not free to move anywhere you like which is part of the whole problem with this line of thought. 99.99% of the world's population are stuck exactly where they are, can't escape, and even if they could, they wouldn't be allowed in wherever they want to go.
Cas :)
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Yes, just uproot your life and family and spend a shit ton of money to move to another country just to escape a literal moron whose in charge for a few years.
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bit like my stocks and shares ... diamond hands. Just sit tight and wait for it all to blow over.
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thats the thing prince. people are too emotional. no manliness left in the world. ignore the drama, the stocks come back, they always do, they will continue to do so. if you feel adventurous, play the daily drama dips, and do some day trading. you already know what the bleating sheep are going to do. so use it to your advantage to let their insecurities make you rich. ive been doing that for years with crypto, the same people act the same way there too. the better thing about crypto is, you don't have to wait for a market to open up, so euro weenies panicking stupid shit, cha ching on the spot there too, and unlike the scam sites like that robinhood, or the bitcoin one in the us that is heavily gelded, they can't shut you down when you start making too much money like they do with stocks.
the bullion market is getting very interesting. gold is just crazy, plat is an opportunity, and silver to play ratio's. palladium is a bit wonky but some profits to be made there too
aaron
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And now it starts: In this Revzilla ride review of the 2025 KTM Adventure R motorcycle, at minute 7:30 it is mentioned that the U.S. MSRP of the bike is $7,000, plus a $700 (10%) import tax added to the base price. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DA7t1tNCCs
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10 percent is a pretty good rate when you compare that to what they charge as tariffs for us goods coming into their country.
i wonder if that applies to just the whole bike or repair parts and stuff too.
Aaron
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10 percent is a pretty good rate when you compare that to what they charge as tariffs for us goods coming into their country.
i wonder if that applies to just the whole bike or repair parts and stuff too.
Aaron
From what I have heard and read, it would also apply to every part imported from any country impacted by a tariff.
Now that Zero is manufacturing their bikes in the Philippines they will get hit with whatever the tariff rate is for that country (30%?) when their bikes are imported into the U.S. That is not going to do anything for their U.S. sales. If the situation continues, I would expect that most of their retail dealers here would just throw in the towel and give up selling Zeros and maybe any electric motorcycle, for that matter. ???
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Thinking about it a little more, I wonder why the "import tax" is apparently based upon the retail price of the KTM and not the price paid by the U.S. importer to the factory in India? Something doesn't sound right here. ???
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there are way around that, i won't expound here but that can be worked around if they really wanted.
aaron
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Don't forget - Trump's tariffs are taxes on US citizens. They don't punish the exporters, they punish the importers' customers.
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so the price of the item goes up, so the people buy American instead, so I guess it punishes those greedy Americans who now have jobs making the things that American's are now buying, made in America again. The tariffs are also just a reciprocal to what is being charged against American's anyways. If they didn't tax / tariff America's products going in, they would not have a tax on their products. It's a reactionary tariff. If your country does not like it, then take your 'tax' off American products. If the customer as you put it, don't want to pay a tariff, then buy American, yes it really IS that simple, and that's the purpose of it. USA USA USA.
Aaron
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If the customer as you put it, don't want to pay a tariff, then buy American, yes it really IS that simple, and that's the purpose of it. USA USA USA.
Aaron
As has been said time and time again, the American made stuff just ends up being more expensive if they can even make it at all. If you can afford to pay that extra then that's fantastic for you, just fuck all the poor people right? Just take a look around you at everything you own and see how much of it is made somewhere other than America (even many things from American brands) and then challenge yourself to find American made alternatives at the same price if they even exist at all. Even the might Trump phone was made in China.
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I think that it is more likely that you could find bananas grown in the U.S., than electric motorcycles manufactured here. In fact, I have a friend who has a relative that lives in LA who actually grows bananas in his backyard. ;) But no one I know of builds electric motorcycles in the U.S. using made-in-America parts anymore, including Zero and H-D.
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I have a banana tree in my yard, they grow fine in the usa. many things grow fine here, many things used to be made here too.
the reason stuff is not made much in the usa anymore is because other countries were undercutting american workers and selling the stuff a bit cheaper, the poor pitiful poor bought the cheap shit, eventually closing the us makers down. See that's the thing with people, they love their 24 dollar an hour minimum wage just to exist..not be productive, just show up and play on your phone at the office, yet don't have a clue where that money comes from to pay it. Then they want their 50 cent toys. They complain they can't find a job, those few who actually are willing to work and not just the welfare brood... well the jobs went overseas because people quit supporting their fellow countrymen and bought the cheap shit, because ,it's cheap and they are cheap.
this didn't just happen, it took some decades to erode away to this point, but the end product is irrefutable. reversing that and making it so that americans CAN buy american products again made at home is going to take some time, and some sacrifice. See that's another problem with first world people. lazy, selfish, self absorbed, when you ask them to put some skin in the game, they scream and howl, just like any parasite when you pull it off it's host. they want their free stuff, they want their cheap stuff, they want their gimme dats and government handouts, and want to put NOTHING of their own into the game. and THIS is why their beloved communism fails every single time.
starvation is a powerful motivator. get rid of all these welfare programs and handouts and make it like it used to be, you want to eat, then you better figure a way to earn some money to pay for the food. too many entitled people thinking they are owed a comfortable life with all the luxuries, just because they exist. there is plenty of food if you look or are willing to work, it's just not filets and caviar.
aaron
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If the customer as you put it, don't want to pay a tariff, then buy American, yes it really IS that simple, and that's the purpose of it. USA USA USA.
Aaron
As has been said time and time again, the American made stuff just ends up being more expensive if they can even make it at all
……….
Yep
https://youtu.be/3ZTGwcHQfLY?si=dfljuDlN-jaiJpbZ
It took decades to get to this point & will take considerable time to get out.
Where does the tariff tax go?
There must be full accountability.
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supposedly the tarriff is going to pay down the debt, and to pay for 'services' that your taxes supposedly pay for now, at least those who work and actually pay taxes. he was floating doing away with the irs. i can't see the latter happening, as politicians are too in love with your money to just let something like that go away. I can also see many states trying to 'pick up' what the fed lets go of, ie well since you are no longer paying 20k a year in fed taxes we'll increase ours 12 k a year so you still get a break.
they tried that accountability thing with the Doge, and everyone is having a fit, how DARE you expose my honeypot!! the only thing that is going to clean out the corruption in dc is a nuclear war wiping the place off the map, or a full blown civil war, which inevitably would turn into a world war as well.
tariffs goto the government, the general fund, ideally... where they get earmarked to after that, god only knows, but yes, some accountability would be nice for a change. it's just like when you pay income tax, it goes into the general pool to pay for all the free handouts.
aaron
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That’s not how it NEEDS to be.
If I’m being penalized for purchasing goods that I CANT obtain (made in) USA then that revenue NEEDS to be allocated such that it causes those unattainable (USA produced) goods to be attainable in the USA.
Many of “his” plains seem half thought out.
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oh they have been thought out, very well, you just are not part of them.
Aaron
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You mean we. The kinds of people who benefit from things like this aren't the type who waste there time on things like online forums, we are far beneath them. Which then begs the question, why are you still defending it? It doesn't matter how you imagine it all to work in your fairy tale world, the reality is it just fucks us all over (well, actually I should exclude myself from this "we" because fortunately I'm not American). Even though you don't care because you're a rich boomer you will be paying more or getting lower quality products, for absolutely no reason other than Trumps bruised ego and lining the pockets of the elite.
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oh they have been thought out, very well, you just are not part of them.
Aaron
Yeah, I guess I forgot your the expert on everything.
Guess I also forgot about this…
https://youtu.be/PslOp883rfI?si=MaBgtwKUIGCcvknB
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you not being american speaks volumes of your stance, you are not the one being robbed to feed the have nots and everyone claiming to be needing american money. you are angry because your gravy train is being cut off and that is understandable. i don't mind helping those in need, but i want to have a say in who gets MY money, and why.
the tarrifs level the playing field. i don't see you complaining about the vats your government puts on your stuff, the tariffs are essentially a vat. why do you think its ok for your country to put a tax on american goods coming in but it's not ok to put a tax on your goods going out? a bit hypocritical. The tariffs are retaliatory in nature, if the countries were not taxing usa, the usa would not be taxing them back.
anytime any system has been abused and is brought back into alignment, there is always complaining, mainly from the ones who were usurping it and can no longer do so. im willing to give it some time to work out, because i see things getting better for Americans. I see american money being used to better american lives, which is where it should be put to use. if other americans want to help the 'needy' here there or wherever, they can do so out of their own wallets, on their own time and dime, and NOT using politicians to steal that money for them.
me rich, not quite, but i did earn all my money by working hard, and don't like it being taken to give away to others, many who have done nothing to earn it. charity is for churches, not government. i'll buy american and not pay tarriffs. or the companies can build it here in america and avoid the tariffs, putting american people to work, same benefit, it helps americans. if the euro clan wants to hate me for that, ill sleep easy at night.
Aaron
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you not being american speaks volumes of your stance, you are not the one being robbed to feed the have nots and everyone claiming to be needing american money. you are angry because your gravy train is being cut off and that is understandable. i don't mind helping those in need, but i want to have a say in who gets MY money, and why.
Absolutely comical. American money means nothing to me, I depend on you (as in the country) for nothing. Well, except for my Zero because that's literally the only American made thing I own. I pay my taxes and it goes to those in need in my own country, not entirely but a damn sight higher percentage of it goes to where it's needed.
the tarrifs level the playing field. i don't see you complaining about the vats your government puts on your stuff, the tariffs are essentially a vat. why do you think its ok for your country to put a tax on american goods coming in but it's not ok to put a tax on your goods going out? a bit hypocritical. The tariffs are retaliatory in nature, if the countries were not taxing usa, the usa would not be taxing them back.
It doesn't level shit, the tariffs are disproportionate. Yes my country charges an import tax on goods but it is the same regardless of where it comes from. The American tariffs are just a petty attempt at punishing the countries that can produce stuff cheaper (and often better) but in reality it just punishes the consumer.
me rich, not quite, but i did earn all my money by working hard, and don't like it being taken to give away to others, many who have done nothing to earn it.
And you're that naïve to think that these the money from these tariffs will do anything to help you, the people you care about, or anyone genuinely in need? Your president, your government, doesn't give a shit about any of those people. All Mr Trump cares about is power and money, the only reason he ran for president is because there are some things that even money can't buy (plus the aforementioned ego). He is a literal racist, predator, felon, and probably any other negative descriptor you can think of and the only reason he gets away with it is money and power.
i'll buy american and not pay tarriffs. or the companies can build it here in america and avoid the tariffs, putting american people to work, same benefit, it helps americans.
Again, you're living in a fairy tale. Good lucking finding all those American made alternatives. Even many of the American brands have their site made abroad. Raise the tariffs on that country? Fine, they'll just move on to the next one. Take all of them out and they'll simply just put up with it because it's not worth the hassle when the rest of the world is fine with buying foreign.
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works for me
usa usa usa