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[Crissa]

But the installation of underground tanks and pumps is awkward...

...They don't require a substation the size of a neighborhood and high-tension power lines.

Being able to turn on and off something that is 1.8 Megawatts is massive infrastructure.  That's the part I don't see how it's going to work.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

Here you go Valnar, this is a summery of Atlis' battery day discussion from Atlis.
He is saying exactly what I've been saying about what the masses demand for them to switch over to an EV.

Of course we both are saying it because we are very very smart.  They only difference is he actually did it and I just said it should be done, but other than that we are the same and deserve equal praise. 

Kidding aside I'd need to see a lot more demo and a lot less white board but he's on record so he should know he has to put up or shut up at some point so for his reputation's sake I hope he can come through.




And I just found the whole thing so here it is.

[Crissa]

So far it's A) virtual and B) not explaining how to get the charging points created.

We'll see if he can pull it off.  But I have serious doubts.  Very few rural communities can pull that kind of juice.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

So my prediction aka prophecy of gas stations turning into charging stations seems to be coming true even earlier then I expected.   

I give you RS Automotive in Maryland.

[JaimeC]

I think charging companies should look at Nolan Bushnell, the original founder of Atari.  Once he sold Atari to Warner Brothers, he had to sign a non-compete contract that kept him out of the video game industry for a period of time (I think it was ten years, but I'm too lazy to check right now).

Anyway, like a lot of people, he decided to look into the restaurant industry... specifically fast food.  At the time America's favorite "fast foods" were burgers, hot dogs, and pizza.  He wondered why there were SO many places that sold burgers and hot dogs, but very few "fast food" places that served pizza.

Once he did some research, he discovered that although there are plenty of ways to quickly prepare and serve burgers and hot dogs, you just can't make a pizza any faster than the way it was made.  So, rather than come up with a way to make the pizza faster, he came up with a way to keep people occupied while their pizza was being prepared... and that's how Chuck E. Cheese was born.

Similar thought could go into charging stations.  Give the customer something to do while his vehicle charges.  Video games, food, a library... anything to kill time (just NOT a bar, thank you very much).  I think that would work out very well.

Hell, most highway truck stops already have everything in place EXCEPT charging stations.  Start with those.

[NEW2elec]

I saw the Atari guy video.  Smart guy but two points for his story.  One I think he cashed in on the incredibly addictive quarter sapping nature of video games more than their god awful pizzas.  Two he was wrong about cooking time as well.  Go to a CiCis pizza and the thing hits a conveyor belt at one end and spits out a pizza in about 5 minutes on the other end.  Is it a great pizza?  No, but they churn them out quick and cheap.

I truly believe charging will be very very fast in the pretty near future.  Time is just too valuable to have 30 mins to 1 hour of charge time be acceptable for most people.

By the way Jamie I got to finally use the J1772 to C13 adapter at work with free, I guess because of the virus, charging.  Worked great, thanks.

[JaimeC]

Actually, Chuck E. Cheese was incredibly successful, but he sold it when his non-compete agreement expired.  The subsequent owners apparently are having difficulties as there is only one left in my area (there used to be several).  That last one may not survive the COVID-19 shutdown, which is a damned shame; I wanted to celebrate my 65th birthday there!

[Richard230]

In today's newspaper there was a long article by the New York Times, written by Lawrence Ulrich, titled: "Charger desert in big cities keeps electric cars from the mainstream".  Sub-titled: " Apartment and townhouse dwellers bemoan the lack of places to juice up their vehicles."  That should give you some idea of the subject matter.

One condo resident was quoted as saying that his residents had lobbied building management and the condo board to install chargers in the below-ground and outdoor lots, which offer more than 1,300 parking spaces. But discussions get hung up over where to install chargers, how to pay for electricity, or which residents will benefit.

This paragraph caught my eye: "Obstacles abound. According to a Rocky Mountain Institute study, station installers face daunting 'soft costs', including permitting delays, balkanized regulations and outdated utility models. The fastest DC-charging hardware costs a sobering $100,000 to  $150,000, but that station can cost $1 million after siting, permits and construction. An aging electric grid faces bottlenecks and reengineering for an onslaught of car owners."

At the end of the article it states that in the case of Porsche's 350 kWh chargers, quick charging, because of the heat it generates can degrade battery life. One reason DC units automatically slow as batteries cross the 80% threshold. "For time-pressed Americans, even that 20-minute stop would require more patience than a three-minute squirt of gasoline."

[JaimeC]

I think Tesla and Westinghouse proved over a hundred years ago how expensive and impractical transmitting DC current over long distances could be.  The cost of building DCFC charging stations doesn't surprise me in the least.

[Crissa]

Many of the massively long-distance interlinks are DC now.  It's just a matter of making them super-high voltage.  That doesn't really have an impact upon charging cars, as it is really impractical and difficult to manage things which are measured in tens of thousands of volts.

But yes, the difficulties of getting power to DC fast charging is only second only to the difficulty of getting it installed or affording the hardware itself.

Getting that siting and permits is the tough part.  Which is why I think we should work at both ends:  Make sure there's lots of little cables to plug into (which will benefit cheap and small transportation like bikes) as well as regional points to quick charge for distance travel.

Very few people want to admit how infrequently they travel long distances.

-Crissa

[princec]

The problem is if that frequency is > 0, and the main usage of the thing. I only travel long distance (over 100 miles a day) on my bike about 3 times a year, but when I do, I do hundreds of miles. In fact it makes up a quarter of my annual mileage, and it's one of the main reasons I have a bike. Judging by the top selling bikes here in the UK, and the people riding them and what they're up to... it's maybe the main market for motorcycles nowadays.

Cas

[Crissa]

Except it still isn't.

They dream is not the reality.

-Crissa

[princec]

I think it genuinely is, here in the UK and Europe. Touring is big business here in Europe. All the old farts with pots of money have bought huge adventure tourers. Commuting by motorcycle is seen as eccentric in the UK. Sports bike sales have fallen through the floor.

Cas

[Crissa]

The vast majority of people don't do long drives, let alone rides.

-Crissa

[princec]

I'm really honestly telling you... that's not how it is here in the UK any more. Times changed. Some people are still just going for a burn on Sundays of course, but mostly now everyone has grey hair, and rides to Scotland or the Picos de Europa at the weekend for kicks. The money's there for electric bikes all right, but the range isn't fitting the use cases, so they're just not selling here.

Cas