Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[valnar]

I've been thinking about this for some time, but I believe it's time for a paradigm shift in the way we charge our EV's in public.  They are a brand new kind of vehicle, so a brand new way of thinking is required.

With ICE vehicles, it was acceptable and even preferred to have a quick-stop place to refuel. Ergo the gas station was invented.  It only takes us 5 minutes to refuel, and if necessary, grab a Slim Jim and slushie.

Now with even optimistic quick-charge scenarios taking 30-40 minutes or so, standing around at a tiny corner station is undesirable.  In a post-ICE world, I think the design of the corner gas station should go away.  Other businesses, from stores to restaurants, should all take up the cause of becoming the mediator of EV charging.  We should have something to do for that time while the vehicle charges, and it could become a secondary source of income for those establishments.

We do see this happening in many places already, but my point is more of making the gas station obsolete.  It doesn't fit the mold in this new world.

What do you think?  Does it make sense to simply outfit gas stations with electric charging?  Or should they go away with the dodo bird once the last ICE vehicle is off the road?

-Robert

[BigPoppa]

The only reason I think charging stations should be at all gas stations is the ubiquitous(sp) nature of them. If you're out in the middle of nowhere, you're still likely to find a gas station, even a 1 or 2 pump setup. Add a level2 charger and/or a CCS charger and it greatly alleviates range anxiety on longer trips without having to meticulously plan your route.

I remember the first time I drove across country while in the Marines and navigating by a road atlas. I rarely let my car drop much below half a tank since I had no idea where the next gas station was going to be. My most recent trip cross country there were so many gas stations/mini-marts that you would need a vehicle that got less than 50 miles on a tank to have any concerns.

I do agree that ideally, chargers should be installed at most shopping establishments, whether strip malls or full blown shopping centers. Greatly increases the number of impulse purchases made while waiting for the charge. Especially restaurants and coffee shops.

[Fran K]

Do you go inside convince stores to buy gasoline or diesel with cash?  Lottery tickets, and cigarettes are way more likely to be holding one up than slim jims.

The future may be fuel cells and liquid or gaseous fuel.  Maybe liquid electrolyte. Maybe replaceable batteries.

Charging in public.  A local town building (county is pretty meaningless here) has two spots real close to the door for free charging.  That is what public I see, fringe benefits for some that a percentage will boast about it.

Obviously the footprint for electric charging needs to be larger especially if folks will do as you suggest charge to full as opposed to just enough to get home and do it.

How about 50 pound battery modules and make green jobs to have someone strong enough to swap them out for those not able.

[TheRan]

Looking around on Plugshare I noticed that quite a few of the stations closest to me (that aren't at gas stations) are in shopping centres or town centres, so there should be enough to occupy an hour or two of your time.

[motorrad36]

I think they will entirely fold unless they rip out the underground tanks and retrofit EV infrastructure in its place. This will be expensive, and many gas station owners will not have the capital to invest. We need the ubiquity of the stations though. With charging rates what they are at currently, even if they halve, the wait at any given station will increase tenfold or more. So we will need a LOT more charging locations.

In a truly ideal world, there is one, maybe two charging standards, and we invest in the infrastructure to put a charging plug on every other street light, and put stations on the long stretched of highways in the middle of the country.

[princec]

I see a future combining supercaps, solid state lithium style batteries, and disposable aluminium-air batteries, all in one pack.

Cas

[valnar]

With charging rates what they are at currently, even if they halve, the wait at any given station will increase tenfold or more. So we will need a LOT more charging locations.

I think this is the root of the problem right here.  We are all enjoying the fact that EV's make up such a small portion of the vehicles on the road.  If that came close to anywhere near 100%, even retrofitting every single gas station with chargers would still be shy the amount needed by a LARGE portion.

Even considering the locals who would charge mostly at home, anyone who traveled long distance, or state-to-state, would require more real-estate than gas stations could provide if you had to leave a car there for 1 hour (assuming fully empty to empty driving).  Just think about ALL the cars and trucks driving by you on a daily basis, especially if you live in NYC or Chicago.  I can't envision there ever being enough unless they start replacing parking meters with EV chargers  Lol.

[princec]

The only reason why we visit petrol stations at all is because that's the only place we can get petrol.
I seem to have a plentiful supply of electricity at home though.

What is probably going to happen is existing sites will be converted to fast-charge sites for long haul trips, but the large majority of users will never use them. Looking at my own driving/riding habits - about 12k miles a year or so, but only 4 trips over 100 miles in that year - I think it should probably work out, though there will indeed probably need to be a few more of them about by the end of the decade or we'll be on shaky ground.

Cas

[Doug S]

I agree that 1) the best solution is charging at home, and 2) for trips, rest stops of one kind or another. Gas stations just don't have enough space to allow many vehicles to charge for a good portion of an hour, so retrofitting them seems not very helpful. Freeway rest stops are basically parking lots with bathrooms and picnic tables anyhow, so why not install chargers there? Use the restroom, stretch your legs and have a sandwich while your car refuels. They're also generally very remote, so there should be lots of room for a solar installation nearby. If there's a shop or two nearby, even better.

For around-town, see number 1) above. EVs are already available with 250+ miles' worth of range, so if you leave the house fully charged in the morning, I can't imagine why you'd need to recharge at the mall. Bikes don't have that kind of range yet, but they're not far from it.

[valnar]

I think we are all discounting the amount of drivers who require >300+ miles between trips on a DAILY basis.  I'd love to live in this 21st Century World we're trying to build by 2035, but I don't see it happening on 2020 technology.....yet.

[TheRan]

I don't think people are discounting them, the amount of long distance drivers is just relatively small. For the majority of drivers they won't exceed the range of an electric car in a single day, and even the range of an electric bike is enough for the average commuter (because people tend not to go as far on bikes). Thus the public stations are for either the smaller number of people who do take really long trips (especially those travelling over multiple days who may not be able to charge overnight wherever they're staying) or those who forget to charge at home or can't for some reason.

One of the great things about electric vehicles is being able to refuel at home (imagine how empty gas stations would be if everyone had gas pumped straight to their homes) and I imagine that's what most people will be doing.

[motorrad36]

  I can't envision there ever being enough unless they start replacing parking meters with EV chargers  Lol.

Oh sheet...you might be on to something big there. Making EVSEs that size might be slightly difficult, but then they could do the same job as the meter does already. ICE cars or anyone not needing to charge can use the same timer function without pulling kW. Seems actually pretty doable...

I think we are all discounting the amount of drivers who require >300+ miles between trips on a DAILY basis.

I would be surprised if that slice of the pie is bigger than 10%. Here is a study (can't see the year) that says 98% of Americans travel less than 110mi/day. https://books.google.com/books?id=32Nbb26J9iEC&pg=PA165&lpg=PA165&dq=percent+of+drivers+who+commute+more+than+300+miles+a+day&source=bl&ots=BEMWsJORkE&sig=ACfU3U3nIMmKPzcINNRJuXOpBQ4suOuAUw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjdnfzsmL7nAhUMHjQIHQ6CC9YQ6AEwCXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=percent%20of%20drivers%20who%20commute%20more%20than%20300%20miles%20a%20day&f=false

[Crissa]

People drive cars based upon their longest or most extraneous use once a year.

It's dumb, but that's what people do.

The idea that we have charging stations in each set of restaurants or downtown shopping areas is exactly why all Whole Foods have them.  Why Costcos have gas stations - and should have charging stations.

-Crissa

Making EVSEs that size might be slightly difficult,

Naw, it's electronic.  You can also always put any transformers into a vault under the sidewalk.

[valnar]

I'm also thinking about the workers who drive all day.  Taxi drivers...my neighbor who delivers Coca Cola all around town....people who do home inspections on foreclosed houses....police....you name it.  It makes me wonder if we'll need to live in a hybrid world where gas is still needed.  I don't think it's going anywhere for aviation any time soon.

[JaimeC]

The idea that we have charging stations in each set of restaurants or downtown shopping areas is exactly why all Whole Foods have them.  Why Costcos have gas stations - and should have charging stations.

-Crissa

Maybe where you live.  NONE of the Whole Foods markets around here have charging stations that I can see...