Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NEW2elec]

But... How can something be best before it's tested or sold?

-Crissa

Exactly!!  It's THAT good!
             

[NEW2elec]

Because the media loves vaporware and hype.

There you go using the V word again.

Look I get it.  It hasn't been "proven" yet, I'll give you that.  From what I've seen it's either a very serious and ambitious venture into making an amazing electric motorcycle that leap frogs the competition or an incredibly complex and reputation crushing elaborate scam.

I don't think think it's a scam by the way.

I mean Lucid, Rivian, hell even the VW ID3 isn't at owner's homes at this point.  Does that make them all vaporware?
Granted there has been more testing on the other examples but the Damon was just first shown this year.  It's also clearly been an all around bad year for most everything.

Honestly are you just sticking with a simple "prove it" attitude or do you not even want them to succeed?

[wavelet]

Now part of a much more prestigious list, the Rob Report's Best of the Best.
From T-Net:

https://www.bctechnology.com/news/2020/9/3/Robb-Report-Names-Electric-Motorcycle-Hypersport-Premier-from-Vancouver-based-Damon-Motorcycles-asBest-of-the-Best-in-Motorcycle-Innovation.cfm

Never heard of this list. A quick glance of their website turns up a random list of name-drop products with shallow summaries. Nothing prestigious about that -- total clickbait hack job.

And Damon doesn't belong on any such list anyway, until they've at least demonstrated a bike that has *all*  of the features & specs they promised working, including battery capacity, weight, top speed etc., on the same bike. Not at all saying they won't -- I do know that a few journalists have experienced some of the systems working on prototypes -- but until they show a bike with everything, it can't be assumed they have it just because they say so.
That's not how it works, and the burden of proof is heavy, given how extraordinary their claims are.

[MVetter]

There you go using the V word again.

Look I get it.  It hasn't been "proven" yet, I'll give you that.  From what I've seen it's either a very serious and ambitious venture into making an amazing electric motorcycle that leap frogs the competition or an incredibly complex and reputation crushing elaborate scam.

I don't think think it's a scam by the way.

I mean Lucid, Rivian, hell even the VW ID3 isn't at owner's homes at this point.  Does that make them all vaporware?
Granted there has been more testing on the other examples but the Damon was just first shown this year.  It's also clearly been an all around bad year for most everything.

Honestly are you just sticking with a simple "prove it" attitude or do you not even want them to succeed?

Did you watch the hour and half long Zoom meeting/presentation they did for a few interested and prospective owners? I did. Jay showed slides from their pitch deck and discussed numbers, ideas, and other points about the bikes. Some of the stuff he said demonstrated he had good knowledge on part of the tech he's trying to showcase. Other parts demonstrate completely detached and unrealistic ideas about how the industry, motorcycles, and EVs in general work. His attitude was arrogant and condescending; very much rubbed me the wrong way. I've never seen another manufacturer in this industry talk down about their competitors the way Jay did.

You should try and find a copy of the video. It's eye-opening. Especially the slides he showed. Unless I am *incredibly* wrong, if the bikes make it to production they'll have wildly different stats than what is projected now.

[NEW2elec]

Wavelet, go to any nice book store and ask for a copy of Rob Report.  It covers all things mind blowingly expensive.

Mvetter
No I have not seen it.  If you find it post it or PM me with it.
Most of his other interviews I've posted here and I get a different impression.
There is a fine line between arrogance and ambitious confidence.  He's certainly no worse than Elon, who made sure to make the final push back of battery day and the reveal of the Plaid S until after Lucid had topped all the old S numbers.

Speaking of Lucid who would have thought they would see a 4 door luxury sedan with a 113kWh battery pack do over 500 miles?
I bet people thought they were making those numbers up.  A sub 10 sec 1/4 mile?  Yeah right.
That car put out a lot of specs that people "knew" weren't possible.

We'll see.  More videos coming soon. 


 

[Crissa]

The Robb Report is a pretty old publication.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Report

-Crissa

[MVetter]

Speaking of Lucid who would have thought they would see a 4 door luxury sedan with a 113kWh battery pack do over 500 miles?
I bet people thought they were making those numbers up.  A sub 10 sec 1/4 mile?  Yeah right.
That car put out a lot of specs that people "knew" weren't possible.

We'll see.  More videos coming soon.

I haven't seen a 4 door luxury sedan with a 113kWh battery pack do over 500 miles, no. I see a claim of it, but I haven't seen it. Where can I see this car and do a test ride?

[Crissa]

I haven't seen a 4 door luxury sedan with a 113kWh battery pack do over 500 miles, no. I see a claim of it, but I haven't seen it. Where can I see this car and do a test ride?

Well, the filmed their commercials over by Pescadero and La Honda, and they're shipping next year, and they've had journalists on ride-alongs and drive-behinds.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lucid/air/2021/2021-lucid-air-first-ride-review-range-test/

-Crissa

[MVetter]

Well, the filmed their commercials over by Pescadero and La Honda, and they're shipping next year, and they've had journalists on ride-alongs and drive-behinds.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lucid/air/2021/2021-lucid-air-first-ride-review-range-test/

-Crissa

I see no mention of a battery capacity in that article.

The funny thing is the car is still backwards. Like, all the claims of aerodynamics and testing and blah blah blah and the car would still significantly benefit from being flipped around the other way. What are designers actually doing with their time?

[Crissa]

I just linked the article because it mentioned the ride-alongs.

Having a longer hood helps crash testing.  And  lower front helps visibility.

-Crissa

[wavelet]

I'm not MVetter, but:

I don't think think it's a scam by the way.

I don't think anyone here has accused them of being a scam. I don't think they are... But I used to work at a VC (not in the automotive space).
IME virtually all startups over-promise -- they have to, because (1) they never have enough money or time, and have to get investors onboard; (2) many entrepreneurs are over-optimistic (otherwise they'd never dare take the risk) and give you the best-case timeline for their product, rather than the typical- or worst-case.
So my SOP is to take anything a startup says with a grain of salt, and certainly when the claims appear improbable.

I mean Lucid, Rivian, hell even the VW ID3 isn't at owner's homes at this point.  Does that make them all vaporware?

Just for accuracy's sake, the ID.3 was delivered to customers in multiple European countries in September (nearly 2000 in Norway alone);  a complete production-intent Lucid Air prototype was given to and tested by a respected 3d-party company (to determine the EPA range), and journalists from multiple known publications have spent 100s of miles in such prototypes as well.

Honestly are you just sticking with a simple "prove it" attitude or do you not even want them to succeed?

In my view, yes, since the claims are highly improbable (in particular, all the mentioned features & specs on one and the same bike, developed in such short time), and therefore they need to prove it, and until they do they don't qualify as valid news. Claims aren't news.
"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and all that.

[wavelet]

The Robb Report is a pretty old publication.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Report

-Crissa

I stand corrected, but not about the content.
In the Internet Age, it looks no different to me from many online blogs and lifestyle "publications" that list many high-profile products for clickbait.
I see no original content or analysis there, or justification for specifically choosing the products they do. 

[wavelet]

Wavelet, go to any nice book store and ask for a copy of Rob Report.  It covers all things mind blowingly expensive.

As I said in response to Crissa's link, I stand corrected on the Robb Report being well-known.
However, the fact that they include a product that's not even a publicly-demonstrated prototype at this stage tells me it's a worthless report, rather than that report lending any support for Damon. It's not like the reports authors are BEV or motorcycle experts, or have seen the bike in person.

Speaking of Lucid who would have thought they would see a 4 door luxury sedan with a 113kWh battery pack do over 500 miles?
I bet people thought they were making those numbers up.

Specifically re range (not commenting on the 1/4-mile time), most people expected the car to have a slightly below 130kWh battery, given the claimed range; I'm cautiously optimistic given the third-party company's tests, but reserve judgement until we have official EPA numbers and multiple independent people have tested the car.

That car put out a lot of specs that people "knew" weren't possible.

Not impossible, merely very expensive to achieve (as it indeed turns out from the prices they're quoting).

IMO, The most unlikely claim Damon has made IMO is a 200kg bike with a 21kWh pack capable of 200mph.
 

We'll see.  More videos coming soon.

Absolutely looking forward to seeing a full prototype of the Damon bike, in particular, the situational awareness system (which is the main feature I find interesting).

[MVetter]

IMO, The most unlikely claim Damon has made IMO is a 200kg bike with a 21kWh pack capable of 200mph.

They've already started to back off on this, and the current battery pack numbers are 19.2kWh.

[Crissa]

Oh, I implied the article was click-baity

-Crissa