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[Crilly]

Mine are 20 amp circuit breakers.

[centra12]

Hello

The charging power of the onboard loader can also be read from the APP
140Volt 12 Amp

140Vx12A = 1680W

1680WX8,5 = 14,28kWh

14.28kWh-5/7% charge loss (efficiency) = 13.28kWh

13.28-15% (loading speed above 80% SOC) = 11.28kWh





An invoice with data directly from Harley.

Range 110 miles 100-0% SOC. Onbordcharger  Performance 13miles / hour.

Charger works with 100% line at 0-80% SOC
110miles X 0.8 = 88 miles

1680W / hour charger = 13 miles
88miles / 13miles = 6.76
6,76x1680W = 11,356kWh Net power!!!!!!!  

[ultrarnr]

So the battery size is close to Energica which has 11.7 kWh available. If this is true then the idea of 110 miles range will only be accurate if you are riding at about 25 MPH in an urban environment. The owners manual for the Eva 107, page 63 gives range as 67.1 miles. Yes you can get more than that but for trip planning purposes that is a good number.

[centra12]

So the battery size is close to Energica which has 11.7 kWh available. If this is true then the idea of 110 miles range will only be accurate if you are riding at about 25 MPH in an urban environment. The owners manual for the Eva 107, page 63 gives range as 67.1 miles. Yes you can get more than that but for trip planning purposes that is a good number.

Harley writes

ESTIMATED 110 MILE RANGE*
The LiveWireâ„¢ motorcycle features a high voltage battery that produces incredible acceleration. It means plenty of range and torque on tap for unlocking the city.

*Riding range estimates based on current SAE testing of LiveWire concept motorcycle. Actual riding range will vary based on several factors including weather and driving conditions.


Why is a range estimated according to SAE.
That's a test standard with fixed values ​​!

[ultrarnr]

The SAE test is probably the one official test that will give the most optimistic range of anything out there. Whether it is realistic doesn't matter.

[centra12]

Yes, that's right

Zero does not do it any differently

"A “City” range test is specified to determine riding range during “stop-and-go” operation typically found in urban areas. This estimate is provided following the SAE J2982 Riding Range Test Procedure for On-Highway Electric Motorcycles to provide a reasonable and consistent basis for manufacturers to inform prospective owners of the riding range that can be expected under specified operating conditions. Actual range will vary based upon riding conditions and habits."

[Richard230]

I continue to find it interesting that H-D and press reports keep mentioning that the LiveWire is optimized for city or urban riding.  I have yet to hear any mention about freeway range or top speed.  I still think that H-D keeps thinking that most of their customers are "bar hoppers".   

[caza]

Probably more about how if they mention it has a highway range of 40-50 miles it's going to make it look a lot worse than it already does.

[Crilly]

Hwy 80 to 90 miles. Would be 50% more than Energica.

Now for the next question.  Pods or cells?

[Demoni]

For reference the SAE test that Harley is referencing J2982 is 2 tests combined into 1 figure referred to as "Highway commuting range".

Both of these tests are done on a dyno, because of this wind resistance is not a factor, so comparisons to "real world" driving range are not accurate. In addition you are not accelerating the mass of the bike just spinning the rear wheel.

The first test is simple you take a fully charged bike and run it at 70mph until it is unable to maintain that speed or the bike faults or shuts off.

The second test is a mixed stop and go test simulating city driving. Here is a graph showing speed and time (in seconds).



Then you take the results and plug them into this formula.

HCR =  1/(.5/RangeCity + .5/RangeConstantspeed)

I am going to hedge my bet on the bike having a 8.5kWh battery pack (usable)

[Richard230]

Motorcycle.com picks apart the H-D electric bicycle and scooter concepts:
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/harley-davidson-reveals-two-electric-urban-mobility-concepts-at-ces.html

[DonTom]

There is no way HD would release a 7.2kwh heavy motorcycle claiming 110Miles range. Wikipedia is simply not updated. HD has not released the battery spec, how should Wikipedia know? HD does not post their specs primarily on wikipedia, and all the sources for that article are from 2014.  We can all guess a number, but 110 miles range mixed driving on a heavier bike requires at least 11kwh, more likely 12-15.

There are almost  infinite variables possible to determine range.

For an example, I can probably prove my Zero DS ZF 6.5 MPH can also  do 110 miles. All I have to do is ride it continuously at 15 to 20 MPH. When I had this bike in Cottonwood, AZ, I was doing all city riding with a 20 MPH speed limit on level ground. The display said I could do 125 miles on this bike that is supposed to only get "74 miles city". It was probably fairly accurate. I figure every time we double the speed we get about half the range and vice versa.

I can also show it will only get around 15 miles. All I need to do is go WOT continuously uphill.

So I ignore all range BS on electrical bikes unless they give us all the facts, such as the weight of the rider, the exact speed used, how level and much more and all testing done by somebody other than the manufacturers. I would believe probably believe a competitor  the most.

It's  quite a bit  more difficult to cheat on battery KWH. Could that be why H-D does not even mention it?

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[ultrarnr]

DonTom,

Another technique is to just ride downhill! Last July I rode my Eva 107 out to western NC. One day I rode west on the Cherohala Skyway into eastern TN. At one point with 39% SOC remaining I had an estimated 181 miles left!  As you head west on the Cherohala Skyway it is generally all uphill until you reach the TN border and then it is mainly downhill for miles.

[DonTom]

DonTom,

Another technique is to just ride downhill! Last July I rode my Eva 107 out to western NC. One day I rode west on the Cherohala Skyway into eastern TN. At one point with 39% SOC remaining I had an estimated 181 miles left!  As you head west on the Cherohala Skyway it is generally all uphill until you reach the TN border and then it is mainly downhill for miles.

Yep, and they could take a photo of that and claim a 400 mile range.

BTW, they cannot cheat on the range of E-cars. The EPA says my Tesla Model 3  has a 310 mile range on a charge and the equivalent of 116 MPG if converted to the cost of gasoline (using averages). But here in CA, you can change your PG&E  rate to pay only 50% after 2300 hrs. That means 232 MPG. We can also make this change on our E-M/C.  Just need a vin number and go here.

Also, with the six months of free SuperCharging, it's even better than that 232  MPG for a half year with my Tesla.

And here is an interesting fact. The EPA is willing to LOWER the MPC on request from the manufacturer. Tesla actually did that with the single motor Model 3 RWD (but I have the AWD--two motors). The reason they did this is the RWD had a 320 mile range (according to the EPA) , but the  more expensive dual motor (that I own) only got a 310 mile range according to the EPA same testing.  Tesla did NOT want to admit their more expensive car got LESS range, even if only by ten miles.  So they had the EPA reduce the range of the RWD to match mine. But the reality is that the cheaper RWD has a 10 mile range more than mine on a full charge according to the actual EPA tests.

I don't think the EPA gets involved with E-motorcycles. That means H-D and the others may legally claim anything they want for the range. This means, for our E- M/Cs we have NO NUMBERS TO COMPARE to other makes! But there are still many other things we can compare, such as battery KWH  to get a rough idea of range. Again, I wonder why Harley won't disclose such an important number in their specs.

Because of this, I assume the Wikipedia article is correct claiming a 7.0 KWH battery until I hear differently.

Harley . . .Speak up!

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Demoni]

I don't think the EPA gets involved with E-motorcycles. That means H-D and the others may legally claim anything they want for the range. This means, for our E- M/Cs we have NO NUMBERS TO COMPARE to other makes! But there are still many other things we can compare, such as battery KWH  to get a rough idea of range. Again, I wonder why Harley won't disclose such an important number in their specs.

Because of this, I assume the Wikipedia article is correct claiming a 7.0 KWH battery until I hear differently.

Harley . . .Speak up!

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Don you might want to read my above post.

The 110 mile range Harley states and the 120 mile range Zero states for the SR14.4 are both results obtained by the SAE J2982 Riding Range Test Procedure. So those numbers are apples to apples comparisons. If those numbers are real world use or not is a different matter, the important thing is the bikes are tested in the same ways.