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[Crilly]

Ok Harley,  it is January, we are waiting.

[Richard230]

Just don't hold your breath.  These things take time. 

[Crilly]

Yea I know.  Harley has said January.  Now we have to wait tell 2/25 for Zero.

[Richard230]

Well now we have some more news.  Pricing to be announced in January.    Still, reading the limited amount of additional information here, it continues to seem to me that the LiveWire will be priced more in Energica territory than in Zero land.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/livewire.html#intcmp_HP_BB1_livewire

[ultratoad]

I'm going to be conservative while going out on my limb and say $30K+....  AND Jay Leno will be the only guy who actually buys one !!!!

[ultrarnr]

I say Zero's level of performance with an Energica price. Brembo brakes, liquid cooling of motor, CCS charging all raise the price. Remember seeing a photo of the belt and it really looked like the same one on my SR.

[Ndm]

I'm not impressed with the charging on j1772, even when using a level 2 station it charges at level 1, so when no CCS stations are available it would charge at 13mph, sad

[ultrarnr]

$29,799.00! And estimated 110 miles of range!

RideApart has posted an article on it. See the link below.

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/300074/harley-davidson-finally-releases-livewire/

I don't doubt it will sell well for folks who just must have an electric H-D. But they are far more expensive than Energica. Not many other details were given. Whether or not it is worth the premium over Energica all depends on how the other specs compare and how badly someone wants an H-D.

[Richard230]

A "city" range of only 110 miles sounds like a "highway" range of about 50 miles. Not very impressive for that kind of money. My Zero is rated at 202 city miles and costs $13,000 less than the LiveWire. While the LiveWire is an interesting design and no doubt will get a lot of free press from the press, I bet they don't sell very many at that price. Buying an Energica would seem offer a better value at a lower price.

[caza]

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/livewire.html

They said the "mixed" range is 110, not city. Closer to the "combined" range rating that zero uses. Zero says 120 combined for the SR, so I expect the harley to be pretty comparable, but a little short in real world range.

I definitely expected the price to be high, over 20k, but not this high.

The complete lack of Level 2 charging is totally baffling to me. Level 2 charging stations are the most common, easy to find charger out there. Level 3 is nice but IMO not worth downgrading every level 2 to level 1. I think in order for this to be even remotely liveable Harely is going to have to install multiple level 3 chargers at every dealership.

The cellular features seem like a nice addition but will require a fee after the first year, a fee which they haven't disclosed yet. "First one's free."

Of course there are still a ton of questions, from more detailed specs to the little details. What will servicing it be like? How much are they going to train their service techs, how available will parts and info be, and how much of it will be serviceable and diagnose by the user?

The app itself looks to be too simple from what they've shown, hopefully it will have more menus that can show us the nitty gritty details like battery voltage, cell balance, temperature, etc.

[ultrarnr]

Cycle World has an article (like everyone else).

Seems the CCS charger can charge to 80% in 40 minutes! Which means it charges at about half the speed that Energica does.

See: https://www.cycleworld.com/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-electric-motorcycle-debuts-at-consumer-electronics-show#page-2

[Richard230]

Here is what the FAQ at that H-D link says about the bike's range:

The high-voltage battery, or RESS, provides 110 miles of range, measured using the MIC city-use cycle.

Riding range estimates based on current SAE testing of LiveWire concept motorcycle. Actual riding range will vary based on several factors including weather and driving conditions.

Also, a national CBS news report that I heard an hour ago said that the LiveWire was designed for urban riding and it accelerates faster than any of the other H-D ICE motorcycle models.

Previous H-D statements have said that every dealer that sells the LiveWire will first have to install a CCS charging station.  (Not all dealers will be selling the bike.) That will be one way to get LiveWire customers to return to the shop to purchase accessories and clothing.

[caza]

Okay, I'm seeing different articles report the range as "mix of city and higher speed riding" and some just saying city speeds. I'd much rather have a range estimate based on specific speeds like zero has for a clearer picture, but I guess we won't really know with the livewire until people actually have them in their garages.

As expensive as the bike is, I wouldn't be surprised if Harley still loses money on each one, at least for the first couple years. The cost of R&D, manufacturing, and installing charging stations. LVL 3 stations are significantly more expensive to buy and install than LVL 2 stations.
https://insideevs.com/installation-costs-of-electric-car-charging-stations-by-type/

This is from a few years ago, but probably not too far off from current prices. Anywhere between 8.5k-50k for a level 3 charger. When you consider how low volume this thing is going to be, I wonder how many dealers might install a charging station but not sell more than a couple of bikes.

[DonTom]

Okay, I'm seeing different articles report the range as "mix of city and higher speed riding" and some just saying city speeds. I'd much rather have a range estimate based on specific speeds like zero has for a clearer picture, but I guess we won't really know with the livewire until people actually have them in their garages.but not sell more than a couple of bikes.

Just compare the KWH of the battery to a Zero to get an idea of its range. That will probably be the best comparison.

The HD LiveWire has a 7.0 KHW battery.

My Zero SR (with Pwr tank) has 16.3 KWH.

My bike costs about half the price of the Livewire and most likely gets better than double the range at any speed.

From what I have seen so far, it will take a sucker to buy the Livewire.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[ultrarnr]

I think it is safe to say at this point that the specs of the LiveWire are not very impressive based on the price and that Harley will have a tough time selling them. But no one buys a H-D ICE bike based on specs and price either so in this case why should price and specs be a concern for anyone interested in the LiveWire?