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Author Topic: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.  (Read 10644 times)

Doug S

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2018, 02:57:14 AM »

Chademo and CCS, you don't need anything else on those fast chargers although they often include a Mennekes because why not. The AC-DC or DC-DC conversion is made by the same converter and the only major difference is the plug that you put in your car.

It doesn't seem like Chademo ever made it out of Japan successfully, and I don't know if CCS DC is gaining steam fast enough here in the States, either.

I personally like both those solutions, but I think they're really only adequate for an interim solution, as is the Tesla supercharger. Until EVs have ~300 mile range, and can charge in five minutes on many street corners in every city, the naysayers will say it's inadequate, and enough people will believe them that EVs will never become the default. Battery capacity is already there, we just need batteries that can stand that sort of charging speed, and a good charging protocol to provide it.
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Erasmo

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2018, 05:17:01 AM »

Apart from some Chademo/Mennekes stations that I saw once in rural France installed by the Renault/Nissan groupe literality every fast charging station I've ever seen has both CCS and Chademo. They are the standard.
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togo

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2018, 03:58:44 AM »

Most of the Whole Foods Markets in the SF Bay Area have
Chademo and CCS.  I think I usually see Nissan Leafs (Leaves?)
using them.  Are they not found elsewhere?

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NEW2elec

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2018, 10:32:43 PM »

I'll let Nikki explain more about the charging station which does include cooling the cable and car's battery in the Taycan for those who want to know more about it.

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gt13013

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2018, 04:27:08 AM »

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Richard230

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2018, 05:42:08 AM »

That is quite a large transformer box powering the two charging stations.   :o
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NEW2elec

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2018, 10:58:16 AM »

Yes Richard it's big and ugly and I'm not sure what's inside that one.  At one point they talked about it being a battery bank that would be charged up all day and dumped when someone needs to use it but I don't know what they ended up going with.
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tango

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2019, 10:55:40 AM »


Tesla makes some good cars and they have made the EV cool and usable for most needs but it looks like most every car company is coming out with one or more EVs by 2020.
At that point the real race starts and we'll see who pulls ahead. 
Tesla may crush them all I don't know, but super fast charging <15 mins will be needed to kill gas.
Even as it is, I see time advantages to my Tesla because it never needs to stop at a gas station ever-and the only times I have ever charged on the road is when I had other things to do for the time being charged.

I normally only charge at home. How many people have a gas station at their house?  Even as it is, EVs can save time compared to ICE vehicles.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ

People don't have a gas station at thieir house but many don't have garages or power outlets where they park their vehicles either.  The current target market for EVs, inner city commuters, don't have those luxuries and would need to charge somewhere. 

This is why there is a race to put replaceable battery "stations" around cities so you can just swap batteries at a street corner or take them in your apartment and charge them.  I think that format will help adoption quicker than the current pace of plug stations.  It won't work, yet, for high powered juice machines but if more people adopt EV of some sort, more infrastructure will come and the more comfortable people will be with purchasing EVs.  Than it will b better for everyone.
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Erasmo

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 05:34:09 PM »

That is quite a large transformer box powering the two charging stations.   :o
It's close to a MW.
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togo

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2019, 01:07:58 AM »

> > Tesla may crush them all I don't know, but super fast charging <15 mins will be needed to kill gas.

Tesla Model 3 gets 100 miles of range in 15 minutes.  Yes, total battery is 300 miles range, but that 20-50% starting SoC charge, before the battery heats up too much, is golden, it can take 120,000 watts for 15-20 minutes.  To cover distance, a supercharge every 100 miles is the best strategy.

> > Even as it is, I see time advantages to my Tesla because it never needs to stop at a gas station ever-and the only times I have ever charged on the road is when I had other things to do for the time being charged.

I did 800 miles each way, SF to Mojave to Mesa, stopped multiple times, and all were pleasant, restaurant, gift shop, espresso bar, all with restrooms, very civilized.  Well, there was that one Carls Jr outside Phoenix that one time...

> > I normally only charge at home. How many people have a gas station at their house?  Even as it is, EVs can save time compared to ICE vehicles.

That's you, but a lot of people don't have garages.

> People don't have a gas station at thieir house but many don't have garages or power outlets where they park their vehicles either. 

That's me.  I can charge my Zero at home, but the Tesla has to charge elsewhere, or I'm blocking the neighbors.

> The current target market for EVs, inner city commuters, don't have those luxuries and would need to charge somewhere. 

> This is why there is a race to put replaceable battery "stations" around cities so you can just swap batteries at a street corner or take them in your apartment and charge them.  I think that format will help adoption quicker than the current pace of plug stations.  It won't work, yet, for high powered juice machines but if more people adopt EV of some sort, more infrastructure will come and the more comfortable people will be with purchasing EVs.  Than it will b better for everyone.

I doubt this will come to much.  A scooter or electric-bike battery can carried into an apartment, but e-motorcycle and e-car batteries are too big to take up stairs or elevator.  People won't stand for the exertion, and the batteries won't handle the wear and tear well.  2C or 3C charging, close to shopping and food court and coffee and restrooms, is plenty good enough. 

Other carmakers should follow Tesla's lead, and optimize cars and charging to do road trips well.  As long as they see them as compliance or "city car" vehicles, they fall further behind.  Tesla shows it can be done, and the other carmakers will have to adjust or die.

T
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togo

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2019, 04:38:13 AM »

> > Tesla may crush them all I don't know, but super fast charging <15 mins will be needed to kill gas.

> Tesla Model 3 gets 100 miles of range in 15 minutes.  ...

https://insideevs.com/tesla-says-sub-10-minute-supercharging-is-possible-we-doubt-it/

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NEW2elec

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2019, 11:05:30 AM »

Yeah Togo 100 miles is real good but to be fair that isn't fully charged.  That range may or may not be enough for the trip and or to the next charging station.  Don't get me wrong it's not like I'm ready to throw in the towel if that charging speed doesn't come soon but if people think that "it's good enough for my use, it's fine" the technology won't be pushed further as fast.  Plus imagine there are four cars in front of you waiting to charge just for 15 mins. 
We still have to crush the "yeah buts" from ICE users to keep sales moving in the right direction, and one of those is charge time in a fast moving world.

I've thought of almost forklift style blades inserted into the rear of a car automatically for high wattage charging but I'll leave that to experts.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 11:07:59 AM by NEW2elec »
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togo

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2019, 01:24:05 AM »

> Yeah Togo 100 miles is real good but to be fair that isn't fully charged...

To be fair, full charge should be avoided if you value battery life, except immediately before a long segment.  It's much better to exercise the mid-range of your battery pack, as long as rapid stations are available at regular intervals.  A stop at least every hour or 90 minutes is good for health and sanity as well.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2019, 02:07:02 AM »

 except immediately before a long segment

Like a trip?  :)
Home charging works for daily use I see these stations for long trips only any way.
It's all good man I can't control any of it I just watch and give my opinion as advice for those that can fix it. 
I am glad to see it getting faster for my mindset of what is needed for the masses. The 9 to 5ers with two or three kids who want to milk every second out of their vacations and days off doing or being where they want to be and not sitting at a charging station.
Keep in mind there are a lot more of them than flexible free time singles.

Quick side thought EV's should not give you a range or battery charging capacity that can hurt your battery.  In other words 100% SOC "should" never hurt your battery.   Lie and say it's 100% when you limit it to 80% if that is what it takes, cause I'm filling that thing up.
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NEW2elec

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Re: Getting 62 miles with a three minute charge.
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2019, 11:29:31 PM »

Not a hit on Tesla since they are basically passing on their cost but this does give cheap skates like me pause.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/19/tesla-hikes-supercharger-prices-worldwide/?yptr=yahoo

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