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[DonTom]

I'd personally only buy cars that work like the Volt/BMW than Tesla.

Teslas can be set to automatically stop charging at any percentage you want, so what's the diff? Most charge their Teslas to around 80% or less and save the other 20% to 30% for longer trips.

IIRC, they expect Tesla batteries to last 27 years, that is more life expectancy than I have left.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I'm not saying there's a different conclusion. I'm saying any conclusion is only as valid as the evidence, and the evidence is superficial AKA circumstantial.

I would really prefer more openness on the part of the vendors at some level so we don't have to reverse engineer our own vehicles to understand what to expect of them. Because the appliance-oriented presentation is invalid for customers.

[NEW2elec]

This whole thing seemed like an issue worth bringing to others attention.
 I found the irony of Musk saying no no charge it on up while others are saying easy there lets not over do it on the charging to be almost comical in it's opposing directives.
 
Like the old slapstick where a guy asks for directions and two people point in different directions and the poor outsider doesn't know who to believe.

The purest truth is it does depend on which product your using which is fair enough but it sure does make it easier to get lost.

[DonTom]

I found the irony of Musk saying no no charge it on up while others are saying easy there lets not over do it on the charging to be almost comical in it's opposing directives.

But what does "charge it up" really mean?  To me that means 75% and do NOT disconnect the Tesla AC cable until I want to drive the car.

The Tesla Model 3  screen in the vehicle and the app  clearly shows where to charge to for daily use and where to charge for a long road trip. Full charge is only recommended for longer road trips where it could be actually needed.

Leaving the power on to charge for  years will NOT overcharge the Tesla as long as it is set correctly to automatically stop charging at 75% (or wherever set). It will have a 75% charge whenever it is disconnected if so set (like mine).  That is probably the confusing part to some as it is recommended to leave the charge cable in when not being used. That doesn't mean it is charging, even with the charging voltage  applied at all times. It will only draw the current to charge when it falls below the 75% SOC if that is where it is set. And also, will only charge for the times set to that 75%. But will be the same charge (75%) even if set for instant charging.

It's not anything like our electric motorcycles here. 

BTW, A Tesla M3 can drop as much as 1% per day if not plugged in. So it is recommended to be plugged in at all times when not being used because it cannot possibly hurt anything as long as the Tesla is not set for the full charge.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

Thinking about this somewhat involved battery charging, it occurs to me that I bet few car owners actually look at their owner's manual.  While I always read any new vehicle's owner's manual whenever I buy one from front to back - at least once, I bet most owners almost never look at the owner's manual and depend upon whatever instructions that they receive from the salesperson when first picking up the vehicle.  I have talked to a number of new vehicle owners over the years and almost none of them ever bothered to read the manual.  And that includes everyone in my family and even my motorcycle riding friends.  Everyone just wings it and manages to find the gas and brake pedals after a while to get the car going and stopped.

As long as the Tesla does stuff for them, like stopping charging at a particular point, then few owners are likely to be concerned what is going on.  However, the battery percentage charge display is likely to be worrisome for most owners as they would think of it as a fuel tank gauge in an ICE vehicle and would want it to show 100% before driving off, even on a relative short trip.

Perhaps what Tesla should do is to change their battery capacity display to show 100% after it stops charging at 75% (as an example) and to just alter the rate of discharge of the display is some way to make the owner feel like the display is accurate.    

It is probably a good idea to dumb down a new consumer electrical device as much as possible when introducing it into the mass market. 

[DonTom]

Thinking about this somewhat involved battery charging, it occurs to me that I bet few car owners actually look at their owner's manual.

When it comes to charging, the Tesla M3 display is as clear as the the owner's manual.  When you go to charge, it is perfectly clear where we should charge to as the display has a "daily commute" and "road trip" on the battery display under "charging".

The M3 Owner's manual is also built right into the screen, but I don't think it updates when  the over the air firmware updates happen and it isn't clear in some areas.

But I have learned to NEVER listen to a vehicle salesman on anything. First try the manual and then the forums when something is not clear. Especially on ICE vehicles when it comes to what gas and oil to use.  I just had to post a message in the Tesla M3 Forum to find my TPMS PSI display and that was AFTER I read every word of the owner's manual. I had no idea that I had to slide the windshiled wiper display icon to get the TPMS readings. And the Owner's manual wasn't clear on that.

-Don-  Reno,  NV

[NEW2elec]

I found the irony of Musk saying no no charge it on up while others are saying easy there lets not over do it on the charging to be almost comical in it's opposing directives.

But what does "charge it up" really mean?  To me that means 75% and do NOT disconnect the Tesla AC cable until I want to drive the car.

The Tesla Model 3  screen in the vehicle and the app  clearly shows where to charge to for daily use and where to charge for a long road trip. Full charge is only recommended for longer road trips where it could be actually needed.

Leaving the power on to charge for  years will NOT overcharge the Tesla as long as it is set correctly to automatically stop charging at 75% (or wherever set). It will have a 75% charge whenever it is disconnected if so set (like mine).  That is probably the confusing part to some as it is recommended to leave the charge cable in when not being used. That doesn't mean it is charging, even with the charging voltage  applied at all times. It will only draw the current to charge when it falls below the 75% SOC if that is where it is set. And also, will only charge for the times set to that 75%. But will be the same charge (75%) even if set for instant charging.

It's not anything like our electric motorcycles here. 

BTW, A Tesla M3 can drop as much as 1% per day if not plugged in. So it is recommended to be plugged in at all times when not being used because it cannot possibly hurt anything as long as the Tesla is not set for the full charge.

-Don-  Reno, NV

Sorry Don you get a C- on this report because you clearly didn't read the book or in this case watch the video all the way through. 
It was the whole point of the video that Musk himself says to charge the car to 90% always and 100% every few months to balance the cells.
He said these are new cells and work differently than the old 21650 so this is the new recommendation.
The woman had an issue where she only charged to 70% and the cars computer interpreted that as all the capacity the battery pack had left and was limiting her range to what she would have at 70% even if she fully charged to a 100% indicated SOC.
The thing was trying to be too smart and too cautious for it's own good.

To be clear this is just for a Tesla Model 3 only and not Zeros or other EV's that I know of.
Please feel free to contact a Tesla and confirm.
If they don't tell you the same thing let me know because the only way it's not the new recommendation from Elon Musk is if this woman is a complete fraud and is lying and making all this up.
 I don't think that is the case because I'm not into conspiracy theories but it's the only way it isn't right.

[DonTom]

Sorry Don you get a C- on this report because you clearly didn't read the book or in this case watch the video all the way through. 
It was the whole point of the video that Musk himself says to charge the car to 90% always and 100% every few months to balance the cells.

I saw that part of your video and that kinda happens with every Tesla owner anyway. I would say "every few months"  is the norm to go on a longer trip and then charge to 100%. And the 90% shows as the upper limit to the "daily" on the display and 70% shows as the lower limit.

I believe Elon probably meant to charge up to 90% for daily use, but does he know more about the batteries than the battery techs who wrote the manual?  I have my doubts.

FWIW, I have owned my M3 since mid Oct and the only time I charged to 100% is a couple of weeks ago when I drove to San Jose (from Auburn), But I still had more than 100 miles of charge left when I arrived in SJ.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Ok so do you believe the woman had the problem she shows at the start of the video with a screen shot of tweets from at least 4 other people with the same problem?
And do you believe they did a hard reset to fix what the car had learned?
I mean either she's lying or she isn't. She goes through all the steps clearly and there was no grey area in my opinion.

I'm not challenging your knowledge but I am interested in where all the doubting feedback (most posts not you) is coming from.

We're all old enough to have been taught there were 9 planets.  Then a few years ago they down graded Pluto to a dwarf planet so we now we have 8 planets in our solar system.   So what we all knew turned out to not be right.

Maybe 2170 cells behave differently or maybe they just need to delete that "learning" software.

[DonTom]

Ok so do you believe the woman had the problem she shows at the start of the video with a screen shot of tweets from at least 4 other people with the same problem?
And do you believe they did a hard reset to fix what the car had learned?
I mean either she's lying or she isn't. She goes through all the steps clearly and there was no grey area in my opinion.

I'm not challenging your knowledge but I am interested in where all the doubting feedback (most posts not you) is coming from.

We're all old enough to have been taught there were 9 planets.  Then a few years ago they down graded Pluto to a dwarf planet so we now we have 8 planets in our solar system.   So what we all knew turned out to not be right.

Maybe 2170 cells behave differently or maybe they just need to delete that "learning" software.

I agree with your subject line. It's kinda mostly guesswork and with all the variables involved (weather, etc), what is best for one may not be best for another. What I believe is my own screen that says where to set it for various uses such as for a long trip or for daily use.

If that is discovered to be incorrect, there will be a new firmware to update it. Until then, I will follow my instructions that the car itself gives me.

I too have had Tesla issues that very few others had (but not related to charging). But was fixed in the firmware update I got just a couple of nights ago. My screen would crash after the car sat for a night. That is now fixed with the last update. I used to have to do a screen reset every morning. Not any more. I expected it to be fixed in the next update. So I simply waited for the next update  and it was then fixed.

I also know that Shadow (from this forum) has had a charger issue in his Tesla that perhaps nobody else had. The Tesla service center  had to fix his. His would not charge above 32 amps with a "Tesla Wall Connector". Mine would charge at 48 amps on the same AC supply at the same SOC.

So what happens to five others is kinda meaningless, IMO, considering the number of M3's on the road. Some minor bugs should be expected with these "SmartPhones on four wheels".

Your video is mainly about calibration of miles left--not the actual miles that should be left (yeah, I know it said miles left is by what is reported). IOW, it's not about the battery but the calibration of the battery and a bit about the balancing also.

FWIW, the one time I did fully charge, mine went to 308 miles. That is close enough to the 310 spec for me. I know what to do if it shows lower, thanks to your video. But until then, I won't worry much about it and will still charge to around 80% or so.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[togo]

> ... So what happens to five others is kinda meaningless, IMO, considering the number of M3's on the road...

And Tesla has the connectivity and volume to actually crunch the big data and get the real answers.

It would be cool if electric motorcycle companies with phone apps would collect statistics.  It doesn't have to be expensive to analyze the data- it could be a good project for some Ph.D. dissertations or something.