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[Richard230]

Here is a long review of this model, including a video. Pretty positive, but the bike does seem to have some issues that could be improved, such as weight and price: http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/energica/2018-energica-eva-esse-esse-9-review.html

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks for posting this Richard. As passionate as I am about electric motorcycles, I'm going to pass on the Energica range. Range and weight being primary issues, along with cost of course.

24,000 miles on my Zero now and loving it.

[ultrarnr]

They compared the weight of the Zero with the Energica and felt the Energica was way too heavy. There are a lot of reasons the Energica weighs more than the Zero and for the most part you will never get the weight of the Energica down to what a Zero weighs. First, the Energica is a full sized motorcycle, the Zero isn't. Swing a leg over both and that is very obvious. Of course you could look at rear tires, the Zero with a 140, The Energica has a 180. There is a huge power difference between the Zero and Energica. There is no way you can take the frame of the Zero and have the kind of power the Energica has and make it work.  The author claims the regen on high isn't linear. He is wrong. He just didn't take the time to learn how to use it. With regen set of high you rarely use the brakes and it is very much adjustable by your wrist. They also compared battery numbers. But Zero advertises total battery size, Energica gives useable battery capacity. Yes the price is a higher. But when you look at what many of us have spent on faster charging for the Zero the price difference isn't that much.

[Richard230]

I found it curious that Energica wouldn't let Motorcycle.com take the bike to their dyno to verify hp and torque? 

[MostlyBonkers]

I found it curious that Energica wouldn't let Motorcycle.com take the bike to their dyno to verify hp and torque? 

That is very strange. I wonder if they were worried about how long those figures are sustainable? I know the Zeros can only maintain peak power output for a very short time before one component or another reduces it to prevent overheating.  In the real world that doesn't matter much, but under testing conditions or on the racetrack it could make the bike look bad.  A few runs on the dyno and these thermal management measures could come into play.

At the very least it's bad PR to prevent journalists from attempting to validate a manufacturer's claimed performance figures independently.  They should quote figures unless they're confident they can be reproduced in these scenarios. I guess they're worried about comparisons with ICE bikes that can produce their peak torque and power figures all day long if necessary.  In reality, we only use those peak figures for very short periods when riding on the road, if at all!

It makes me wonder about getting my Zero tested on a dyno.  That would be an interesting little exercise, especially if it was a thorough test with multiple runs over a significant period of time. Under wide open throttle (WOT), the non IPM motor on my 2014DS overheats within minutes.  However, with the traffic on the M1 into London it's rare that thermal management becomes an annoyance. I don't notice the reduction in peak power much on the motorway either because once I'm up to speed the power draw is well within sustainable limits.  Therefore if I do need to accelerate I'll be given full amps from the inverter providing my motor isn't running too hot. I don't think battery temperature is ever an issue on my commute.

I'd love to see some independently tested figures from putting an Energica on a dyno.  Are you up for that ultranar? If you do yours, I'll do mine. I'd be happy to try and match the same testing profile as much as possible too. It would have to be on a different dynoof course, but one would hope that they should all be calibrated to produce accurate numbers.

[MostlyBonkers]

They compared the weight of the Zero with the Energica and felt the Energica was way too heavy. There are a lot of reasons the Energica weighs more than the Zero and for the most part you will never get the weight of the Energica down to what a Zero weighs. First, the Energica is a full sized motorcycle, the Zero isn't. Swing a leg over both and that is very obvious. Of course you could look at rear tires, the Zero with a 140, The Energica has a 180. There is a huge power difference between the Zero and Energica. There is no way you can take the frame of the Zero and have the kind of power the Energica has and make it work.  The author claims the regen on high isn't linear. He is wrong. He just didn't take the time to learn how to use it. With regen set of high you rarely use the brakes and it is very much adjustable by your wrist. They also compared battery numbers. But Zero advertises total battery size, Energica gives useable battery capacity. Yes the price is a higher. But when you look at what many of us have spent on faster charging for the Zero the price difference isn't that much.

I agree about it being unfair to compare the weight of a zero to the weight of an Energica. However, comparing the weight of an Ego to a Fireblade is perhaps a little more reasonable. I think the Ego is around 220lbs heavier and produces 45bhp less power. Much more torque though, but there's no gearbox so torque at the rear wheel is likely to be less than on the Fireblade in a low gear.  If not, then I'm sure a Fireblade still accelerates quicker as it is much lighter. No doubt the Fireblade handles much better than an Ego too. 

In terms of physical size, I'd say my Zero compares to bikes like the Triumph Street Triple.  Medium sized and better handling as a result too.  Many sports bikes seem to have got smaller and slimmer over the years, so I'm not sure I'd refer to a bike as 'full' sized as though smaller bikes are for children. There are of course really big bikes like the Honda Goldwing but that doesn't necessarily make them more desirable.  I love litre bikes, but they don't have to be big.  The Ego is definitely a big bike.

That said, the Energica's are starting to look like a better proposition than the top end Zeros, all things considered.  Zero badly needs to implement D.C. rapid charging. Preferably CHAdeMO as its more available here in Europe. If I'm not mistaken, CHAdeMO leads in the U.S. too?  Europe is potentially a bigger market for Zero though. I just wish they were based here! 

[Richard230]

I was also sorry to hear that the two commercial L2 charging stations that the author of the review planned to recharge at were out of commission and he just barely made it home at the 21 mph "limp home" speed. That has always been a concern to me.  Since charging stations are unmanned and usually in locations that are not always occupied by the public, such as at night, these things can be vandalized and when they break down, there is no one around to fix them. Some dissatisfied customer might, or might not, notify the company and then the repair gets put on someone's list of things to do some day.  Meanwhile EV owners who need to recharge are out of luck and hope they have enough good luck left to reach the next functioning charging station.

While I have never seen a dyno test of an Energica, I did find a dyno test that was performed by Motorcycle Consumer News for the 2016 FXS model and another one comparing the 2013 Zero with a 2012 model, but I don't know the source of that test.

[MostlyBonkers]

Thanks Richard.  The DC rapid charging infrastructure isn't anywhere near good enough to seriously consider an Energica at the moment.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I still suspect that Energica pricing is so artificially depressed (funded by investment) as to be misleading. The cost of replacement parts and servicing may not match the current sales prices.

[MostlyBonkers]

I still suspect that Energica pricing is so artificially depressed (funded by investment) as to be misleading. The cost of replacement parts and servicing may not match the current sales prices.

Good point Brian. They do sport a lot of premium components and that liquid cooled motor can't have been cheap to develop and manufacture.  There could be a few nasty shocks for people needing parts outside their warranty period.

[MostlyBonkers]

I still suspect that Energica pricing is so artificially depressed (funded by investment) as to be misleading. The cost of replacement parts and servicing may not match the current sales prices.

Good point Brian. They do sport a lot of premium components and that liquid cooled motor can't have been cheap to develop and manufacture.  There could be a few nasty shocks for people needing parts outside their warranty period.

[MostlyBonkers]

I still suspect that Energica pricing is so artificially depressed (funded by investment) as to be misleading. The cost of replacement parts and servicing may not match the current sales prices.

Good point Brian. They do sport a lot of premium components and that liquid cooled motor can't have been cheap to develop and manufacture.  There could be a few nasty shocks for people needing parts outside their warranty period.

[Richard230]

Posting on the internet a little slow for you today, MostlyBonkers?  I noticed the same thing. It is easy to keep hitting the button when nothing happens right away. 

Regarding Energica's low prices, which were as low as $17K USD last fall, I was told by my dealer that Energica was able to sell a bunch of "pollution credits" on California's pollution market (I forget the official name of this money generator where big polluters buy credits from non-polluters so that they can continue to pollute) and were able to use that money to reduce their MSRP. When the exact same bikes first entered the market they were selling in the $35-$40K USD range (as I recall( and that likely provides some idea of their unsubsidized value.

I agree with you regarding the cost of replacement parts.  Just check out the prices that they charge for their factory chassis bling upgrades and accessory parts.  Some of those components cost as much as entire IC 250cc motorcycles. 

[ultrarnr]

When I met Stefano, Energica's head guy for US operations he made the comment that their prices had been way too high before so I doubt they are artificially depressed. Team Power Sports in Raleigh, my local Energica dealer has sold several of them so far at current prices. If Energica raises their prices back up to previous levels their sales will also go back to previous levels. 

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

"way too high" could just mean "way too high to sell".

I've also met Stefano, who gave me a lot of that Northern Italian racing snobbery guff. I'm part Italian and have seen this before, and it never seems to add up to much after the puffery.

I'm just suggesting that as a highly capitalized startup on the Italian stock market, they may be operating in a way one would not expect.