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[Justin Andrews]

+1 Doug and I forgot to mention there are plenty of DC rapid chargers in the UK now. We'd always like a lot more to reduce the risk of bad luck, queuing and so on, but they're coming.

Just as long as you don't want to go into Wales. Wales seems allergic to DC charging...

As for the announce of the 2019 models, I'm guessing mid October?

[Killroy]

Traction control.

The off the line acceleration is obvioulsy throttled back so that riders don't loose traction and crash or loop the bike and crash. I want my Zero to go as fast as it can.   

[Richard230]

In slightly related news: Motorcycle Consumer News has a "teaser" on the last page of their magazine stating that a full test of a Zero DSR will be in next month's issue. I assume that will be a test of the 2018 model and not a 2019 bike. My guess is that Zero still has some unsold DSR's in the inventory pipeline that they felt will make good test bikes for magazine reviewers to generate a little positive press before the 2019 models are announced - whenever that will be. 

Another news item that I heard this morning is that bicycle parts are becoming much more expensive due to most of them being made in China and are now being taxed when sourced from that country. Future prices of bicycles and bike parts from Chinese manufacturers are being quoted to retailers as much as 25% more than last year and the bicycle retailers (Mike's Bikes were quoted) are scrambling to find part sources in other bicycle manufacturing countries, such as Taiwan, in order to keep prices for new bicycles and their replacement parts within reason. I sure hope that Zero is not going to be affected by this issue as they probably don't have alternate choices for their parts manufacturers.

[MostlyBonkers]

In slightly related news: Motorcycle Consumer News has a "teaser" on the last page of their magazine stating that a full test of a Zero DSR will be in next month's issue. I assume that will be a test of the 2018 model and not a 2019 bike. My guess is that Zero still has some unsold DSR's in the inventory pipeline that they felt will make good test bikes for magazine reviewers to generate a little positive press before the 2019 models are announced - whenever that will be. 

Another news item that I heard this morning is that bicycle parts are becoming much more expensive due to most of them being made in China and are now being taxed when sourced from that country. Future prices of bicycles and bike parts from Chinese manufacturers are being quoted to retailers as much as 25% more than last year and the bicycle retailers (Mike's Bikes were quoted) are scrambling to find part sources in other bicycle manufacturing countries, such as Taiwan, in order to keep prices for new bicycles and their replacement parts within reason. I sure hope that Zero is not going to be affected by this issue as they probably don't have alternate choices for their parts manufacturers.

I guess those parts manufacturers will just have to open up factories in the U.S. then... Wouldn't you like to see manufacturing come back to your home country? I'm not a fan of Trump, but I do think that manufacturing should come home. Automation should make it affordable.

[Richard230]

In slightly related news: Motorcycle Consumer News has a "teaser" on the last page of their magazine stating that a full test of a Zero DSR will be in next month's issue. I assume that will be a test of the 2018 model and not a 2019 bike. My guess is that Zero still has some unsold DSR's in the inventory pipeline that they felt will make good test bikes for magazine reviewers to generate a little positive press before the 2019 models are announced - whenever that will be. 

Another news item that I heard this morning is that bicycle parts are becoming much more expensive due to most of them being made in China and are now being taxed when sourced from that country. Future prices of bicycles and bike parts from Chinese manufacturers are being quoted to retailers as much as 25% more than last year and the bicycle retailers (Mike's Bikes were quoted) are scrambling to find part sources in other bicycle manufacturing countries, such as Taiwan, in order to keep prices for new bicycles and their replacement parts within reason. I sure hope that Zero is not going to be affected by this issue as they probably don't have alternate choices for their parts manufacturers.

I guess those parts manufacturers will just have to open up factories in the U.S. then... Wouldn't you like to see manufacturing come back to your home country? I'm not a fan of Trump, but I do think that manufacturing should come home. Automation should make it affordable.

That is a nice thought, but I don't see it happening. Manufacturers will go wherever they can to cut costs.  Even the Chinese are moving factories to Vietnam to cut costs as the labor in that country is even cheaper than in China. But I think several of Zero's components are so specialized that they may be stuck with higher prices if things don't get sorted out soon. I don't think they can eat any increases, so we might see prices for Zero motorcycles climbing next year, unless they can get innovative about cutting costs. Perhaps they were able to place a big order for the parts that they needed for MY19 earlier this year and that will buy them some breathing room next year. I am really going to be interested to see what changes the 2019 model year will have and how they will be priced. 

[wavelet]

In slightly related news: Motorcycle Consumer News has a "teaser" on the last page of their magazine stating that a full test of a Zero DSR will be in next month's issue. I assume that will be a test of the 2018 model and not a 2019 bike. My guess is that Zero still has some unsold DSR's in the inventory pipeline that they felt will make good test bikes for magazine reviewers to generate a little positive press before the 2019 models are announced - whenever that will be. 

Another news item that I heard this morning is that bicycle parts are becoming much more expensive due to most of them being made in China and are now being taxed when sourced from that country. Future prices of bicycles and bike parts from Chinese manufacturers are being quoted to retailers as much as 25% more than last year and the bicycle retailers (Mike's Bikes were quoted) are scrambling to find part sources in other bicycle manufacturing countries, such as Taiwan, in order to keep prices for new bicycles and their replacement parts within reason. I sure hope that Zero is not going to be affected by this issue as they probably don't have alternate choices for their parts manufacturers.

I guess those parts manufacturers will just have to open up factories in the U.S. then... Wouldn't you like to see manufacturing come back to your home country? I'm not a fan of Trump, but I do think that manufacturing should come home. Automation should make it affordable.

That is a nice thought, but I don't see it happening. Manufacturers will go wherever they can to cut costs.  Even the Chinese are moving factories to Vietnam to cut costs as the labor in that country is even cheaper than in China. But I think several of Zero's components are so specialized that they may be stuck with higher prices if things don't get sorted out soon. I don't think they can eat any increases, so we might see prices for Zero motorcycles climbing next year, unless they can get innovative about cutting costs. Perhaps they were able to place a big order for the parts that they needed for MY19 earlier this year and that will buy them some breathing room next year. I am really going to be interested to see what changes the 2019 model year will have and how they will be priced.

++
Automation is happening, and going to continue to happen, everywhere anyway (by every single metric the US is manufacturing a lot more that it ever did with a lot fewer workers; ditto in agriculture where self-driving combines are starting to be used, as well as drones for monitoring growth & water usage).
But nevertheless, given  identical automated plants in two different locations, the one with lower labor costs will still win, even if the labor costs are now the engineers & technicians that design, install, oversee and monitor the industrial robots.

[Richard230]

I guess we will have to wait to find out. I doubt that the electric motorcycle parts business is large enough for any reporter to investigate if those items are on anyone's hit list. 

[togo]

> But nevertheless, given identical automated plants in two different locations, the one with lower labor costs will still win, even if the labor costs are now the engineers & technicians that design, install, oversee and monitor the industrial robots.

It becomes the cost of *skilled labor* that wins, then.  And engineering is complicated.  A really effective engineer can be worth 10 or 100 engineers that have the skills "on paper" when it comes to keeping an automated plant running.

[Mudface]

Had a chat with a Zero Dealer today.

I've been told they will have the news we've all be waiting for next week

[Richard230]

Had a chat with a Zero Dealer today.

I've been told they while have the news we've all be waiting for next week

I am surprised that Zero is apparently keeping the date of the introduction of their 2019 models confidential.  They certainly wouldn't want to build up any suspense for their potential customers who might be interested in the new models. 

[heroto]

The part of bicycle imports that will be hurt the most by Trump tariffs is the ebike portion, that is bikes with electric assist, which is small but recently exploding segment.

Jobs coming back here at Chinese wages is not much of a plus for the US.

[dukecola]

In slightly related news: Motorcycle Consumer News has a "teaser" on the last page of their magazine stating that a full test of a Zero DSR will be in next month's issue. I assume that will be a test of the 2018 model and not a 2019 bike. My guess is that Zero still has some unsold DSR's in the inventory pipeline that they felt will make good test bikes for magazine reviewers to generate a little positive press before the 2019 models are announced - whenever that will be. 

Another news item that I heard this morning is that bicycle parts are becoming much more expensive due to most of them being made in China and are now being taxed when sourced from that country. Future prices of bicycles and bike parts from Chinese manufacturers are being quoted to retailers as much as 25% more than last year and the bicycle retailers (Mike's Bikes were quoted) are scrambling to find part sources in other bicycle manufacturing countries, such as Taiwan, in order to keep prices for new bicycles and their replacement parts within reason. I sure hope that Zero is not going to be affected by this issue as they probably don't have alternate choices for their parts manufacturers.

I guess those parts manufacturers will just have to open up factories in the U.S. then... Wouldn't you like to see manufacturing come back to your home country? I'm not a fan of Trump, but I do think that manufacturing should come home. Automation should make it affordable.

I agree. I'm willing to pay more if an American can hold the job. As for automation, while we will lose manufacturing jobs there will be a whole new sector for automation equipment design, manufacturing, repair, and maintenance.

[heroto]

Agree, but don't think for a second that this sector will employ as many as the "good ol days" of Motor City, etc. manufacturing dominance. In the past, labor was cheap and technology was expensive. Now it's the opposite, and no amount of treaty tweaking, tariffs, sloganing, blustering, or similar will change that. The new reality is what it is. So do we in the US put our heads in the sand pining for a past that simply will never come back,  or embrace and become leaders in the new reality? Look forward!

[Killroy]

Please be aware that China is actually really good at automation.  If you don't think so, look at your phone.

Automation is great, but its expensive and time consuming to design custom production lines, so in most cases, it requires volume.  Good manufactures do manual where it makes sense and automation when it makes sense.  Tesla is learning this lesson right now.

The problem with Zero is that Zero has zero volume.  Other industries would laugh at Zero's volume and that means that Zero does not have a lot of buying power.  I'm sure some of Zero's parts are off the shelf, but I don't think there is much volume there either.

What I want in 2019 is for Zero to increase it sales, make a profit and improve their company - better service, better reliability, lower prices, more models and accessories.  I don't know, but based on Zero's cash injections last year, I don't think they are profitable yet.  I've heard former employees say that they need to double there sales to break even.

I think tariffs are stupid.  They may protect a American job that his hanging by a thread, but I don't think it would get one back. 

[MostlyBonkers]

Please be aware that China is actually really good at automation.  If you don't think so, look at your phone.

Automation is great, but its expensive and time consuming to design custom production lines, so in most cases, it requires volume.  Good manufactures do manual where it makes sense and automation when it makes sense.  Tesla is learning this lesson right now.

The problem with Zero is that Zero has zero volume.  Other industries would laugh at Zero's volume and that means that Zero does not have a lot of buying power.  I'm sure some of Zero's parts are off the shelf, but I don't think there is much volume there either.

What I want in 2019 is for Zero to increase it sales, make a profit and improve their company - better service, better reliability, lower prices, more models and accessories.  I don't know, but based on Zero's cash injections last year, I don't think they are profitable yet.  I've heard former employees say that they need to double there sales to break even.

I think tariffs are stupid.  They may protect a American job that his hanging by a thread, but I don't think it would get one back.

+1

It just seems so damn difficult for Zero to sell their bikes. Putting aside Policemen patrolling parks, movie makers (conveniently local) and nerds (I include myself in that category), nobody wants to touch them. Zeros are motorcycles after all, which seems to exclude about 99% of the population.  99% of bikers stop listening as soon as you start talking about range and charging times. It's a really a tough sell.

So perhaps Zero should invest in some marketing that firstly spreads the word and then challenges some of the false assumptions people have.

I've just spent two and a half years riding my Zero and have clocked up 25,000 miles.  During those two years I've benefited from extremely low running costs. Putting reliability issues aside, it has been a dream to own and use regularly. No maintenance, no visits to petrol stations, etc, etc...  All that time I thought I was riding the very best bike for my commute bar the more powerful SR or DSR models.

Just recently I bought a Honda CB1000R, you know, the funky new one.  It drinks fuel, needed a service after only 600 miles, has gears to change, a chain to lube every 200 miles (every few days for me) and I've managed to stall it, crunch the gears, find false neutrals, put it in neutral when I needed a gear, etc, etc...

So, which is the best bike for my commute?  The Honda.  It is just so much more fun!  In fact, it's so much fun that I absolutely don't give a damn about how much it's costing me in petrol.  The act of filling it up has become a welcome reminder that I'm using it and having the time of my life!  What an amazing bike!!!  It's lively, has a real spirit to it, suits me perfectly and is a dream to ride.  What's more, it's a lot safer than my Zero because it accelerates faster, breaks quicker, has more grip and has that all important traction control. The fact that it looks superb is just the icing on the cake.

Bikes like the Honda CB1000R are what Zero is up against. They need to make a bike that is more compelling than the current crop of top end bikes.  I think it's possible. Why? Because of all the shortcomings that ICE bikes have and we're all so familiar with.

There is no doubt in my mind that electric motorcycles will get a healthy share of the market eventually. My list of things they need to introduce as soon as they can is:


Aerodynamic fairings for a touring bike.

200 miles+ of range at a constant 70-80mph.

Active thermal management for all the components that need it (motor and battery mainly).

Traction control

Rapid charging capable of 20-85% SoC in five minutes.

Weight as low as possible, but keeping in mind that a BMW 1600RT weighs around 380kg.  You can get a really decent battery pack in a big bike like that. 

I'd make a big tourer that was inspired by the 1600RT but weighs 350kg, has a range of 250 miles and all the gadgets etc with a price tag a couple of thousand below the RT.  Chuck in a really sweet breakdown recovery package too so if someone does get stuck while touring, they get very quick five star treatment.  So good in fact that they'll be begging the bike to breakdown because their holiday will improve!

Make a no frills commuter that is the same price as the competition, faster and costs nothing to run.

I'm sure that some of that is possible with current technology.  If not, it will be in five years time.