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[SteveInNC]

As the title states I really got close today and realized that I didn't have a good plan for if and when 0% happens. I pulled into the garage with 2% showing. [emoji16] I would like to hear what contingency plans some of you have for when this actually happens. I've had a trailer most of my life but, I sold the last one I had about five years ago. Just curious to what your thoughts are on this.


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[mrwilsn]

You might be surprised how far you can go on 0% charge.  My 2014 S starts to cut power pretty significantly below 5% SOC but it keeps moving right up to 0%....and beyond.  I have taken it all the way down to 0% and the bike would still move at really low speeds (less than 10mph and continuously getting slower the longer you ride at 0%).  Really it was continuously reduced torque which means it gets harder and harder to build up speed.

Eventually the bike got to the point where it wouldn't move at all....with me sitting on it.  I got off and started pushing the bike while it was still on so that I could collect a little regen power.  After about a block I tried the throttle and there was enough juice for me to do an assisted walk for about a mile until I finally found a place to plug in outside a grocery store.  Try doing that with an ICE bike    In reality the one block I pushed it didn't really add much of any power but the pack voltage floats enough that pushing it for a short time brought the voltage up enough to start the assisted walk and then sustain it so long as I didn't try to get back on and make it carry me 

I deliberately ran the SOC all the way down under conditions where I was in a densly populated area with lots of businesses where I knew I would be able to find an outlet when I eventually ran out....and I had plenty of time to hang out while the bike charged in order to get home.  I just wanted to see what would happen and reassure myself that it would have to be a REALLY bad day to get completely stranded.

I think you would really have to be out in the middle of nowhere to get yourself completely stranded to the point that you couldn't get to an outlet.  That's assuming you are healthy enough to be able to walk with the bike to find an outlet and you are willing to ask people for a hand by letting you plug in when things get really desperate.  Electricity is so cheap relative to gas that even if you offer to compensate people a lot of the time they are willing to just help out from the kindness in their heart.  Plus there are always apps like Plug Share that can help you find people that are eager to help others charge up.

About the only thing I have done is buy a longer charge cord so that I can plug in when its not possible to get as close as required with the stock charge cable.  I bought a 15ft. cord (make sure you get 14AWG or better) and it still fits in the frame like the stock cable (at this length 12AWG or bigger won't fit in the frame and isn't required to keep things safe and within spec).  For a 120V outlet you can get up to 25ft. at 14AWG.  If you get a cable longer than 25ft. you need a bigger AWG.  This is the one I bought from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007O0ZJKA

[ultrarnr]

Steve,

Where do you live in NC? I am near Southern Pines, about an hour south of Raleigh. Yes I have a trailer and or a generator whichever is most appropriate. Until the charging infrastructure gets more developed range anxiety is part of owning an EV. The first time I rode down to Columbia, SC I had to stop at a charging station which according to Plugshare no one had checked in in over three years. No idea if it worked or not. Lucky for me it did. I traded my 2014 SR in for a 2016. Now I see charge times of over 14 hours using 110 volts. So that is what I have to look forward to if a charging station doesn't work with my Elcons and there are no other charging stations nearby and I have to find a 110 outlet. Sometimes it really does come down to having a friend come help you.

Vinny

[SteveInNC]

mrwilsn,

Interesting about it still having power at 0% and enough to assist walking after that. Good to know. I was having flashbacks of reading on here about bikes stopping at 5-10%.

ultrarnr,

I'm in western NC, a little east of Asheville. Not many charging stations around here.

Btw, I failed to mention in my OP that I ride a '15 Zero SR for anyone wondering.


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[mrwilsn]

mrwilsn,

Interesting about it still having power at 0% and enough to assist walking after that. Good to know. I was having flashbacks of reading on here about bikes stopping at 5-10%.

Btw, I failed to mention in my OP that I ride a '15 Zero SR for anyone wondering.

Every time you discharge, the cells in the battery get out of balance the lower the pack SOC gets.  The cells will naturally get back into balance as the pack is charged...to a point.  That's where the BMS balance function comes into play.  The Zero BMS top balances the cells at the end of the charge cycle.  So what?

If the bike is unplugged before the BMS has an opportunity to balance charge all the cells then the cells will be more unbalanced at low SOC than if the BMS had been able to fully balance the pack when it was charging.  If you go through several charge cycles without balancing then the cells can get out of balance to the point that power ends up getting cut before the pack reaches 0% because the cells are too far out of balance at low SOC.  I think this is the root cause of most of the stories about the bike stopping at 5-10% although there are probably a few stories out there due to other root causes.

When I'm not riding my bike it is always plugged in.  With my daily riding habits the SOC on my pack rarely goes below 50% before it gets plugged in again.  When I did the test to see what would happen at 0% it had been charging for well over 12 hours and the pack was certainly as balanced as it can get (I should have checked in the app but didn't).

I would never plan a ride where I thought I was going to go right up to 0% but if it happens its not a guarantee it's time to call for help....in many cases you should be able to keep limping along until you find an outlet.

It's also worth mentioning that Zero really improved things in MY15 and it seems most have had much better results at low SOC.  I think in the older MY's Zero artificially starts cutting power when SOC gets low.  Starting with MY15 you will see a natural reduction in available torque when SOC gets really low but I don't think Zero is artificially limiting things.

[Doug S]

I've had two experiences with extreme range anxiety, both more or less on purpose. The second time was at Craig Vetter's mileage event last July 4th, where I was trying to finish an 80+-mile, mostly freeway course without recharging at the midway point (I got to the midway point with 52% left and figured I could make it back, since it was mostly downhill...but I neglected to consider the prevailing wind, which was a tailwind out and a headwind back in).

The first time, I just wanted to see if I could get up to Julian from El Cajon, which is about an 82-mile round-trip from my place, but no freeway speeds involved -- it's a beautiful mountain road up to Julian and back down to El Cajon. I found out I can do it if I don't mind pushing the last few hundred yards.   Actually, I passed my local 7-11 maybe 1/2-mile away from home, though I'm sure they'd allow me to plug in for a while, because I still had 4% on the clock. But from there, it's an uphill grade home, and those last few percent disappeared mighty fast! Being so close to home, I jumped off and started pushing, but when I came to a nice stopping point, it occurred to me I should try to run the bike again. I jumped back on and it gave me power, enough to get me to my driveway -- I had to push the last 10 feet.

So, if I was near home, I think the first thing I would do is just wait. The voltage of a battery pack, especially a tired battery pack, tends to sag under load, and it will slowly recover a bit when you remove the load. So turn the bike off and wait for several minutes. The battery voltage may recover enough so the BMS will allow you to ride a few hundred more yards. If I'm not mistaken, Richard had a ride where he was successful in getting home by resting the battery several times, getting him the last little ways home.

Also, don't hesitate to just ask if you can plug in somewhere for a little while to get enough juice to get home. On the Vetter ride, I pulled over and asked at a gas station if I could plug in -- they were more than happy to let me juice up for an hour, asking me questions about the bike and generally acting excited that I'd chosen their gas station to recharge at. I'm also still convinced that my local 7-11 would have been happy to let me grab some juice -- god knows they've shown lots of interest in the bike in the two years I've had it.

[MostlyBonkers]

I'm finding that a Sat Nav is an invaluable tool to help prevent range anxiety. As it happens, I'm riding over to my parents house today. The fastest route is 62 miles and I know it can be done in 1hr 15m by car, even though the Sat Nav says it's more like 1hr 30m. I won't be taking that route on my Zero though, because it's mainly on fast roads.  For electric biking I often choose the winding roads option. That generally keeps me off the really fast roads. The route drops to about 55 miles using that but in this case puts me on quite a few fast roads. So this time I'm selecting the shortest route which I almost never use. That's because it literally routes you as the crow flies no matter how slow the route is likely to be. It means travelling through town centres, going via all manner of back roads and along the narrowest of country lanes. However, with the Zero it will ensure that I get to my parents with the maximum possible SoC remaining.  That's really important today because I need to charge back up to 100% while I'm there and head home at a reasonable time in order to put my son to bed.  The travel time is estimated at just under two hours. I'll keep the bike in eco mode and I hope to make it with at least 30 SoC. 4.5 hours of charging will give me approximately 5.5kWh of juice, not enough to get back to 100%. At that point I'll have to take a view on it and decide whether to ride home using the shortest route again or stay longer, top up and take a faster route home.

It's all a bit tight and just to add to the fun, it's really cold this morning so I'll be setting off with a battery that is at 0C. Perhaps 1C by the time I set off but no more.

If I had an ICE bike I would just jump on it, ride whichever route took my fancy and not have to think about any of this stuff. However, the fact that I do, turns the journey into a mini adventure. I really don't know how today will turn out! That's part of the fun for me. I think Richard alluded to this in that old post of his I bumped recently. It's like going back to riding bikes in the 70's when there weren't any guarantees. From his experience, that is. I was born in the early seventies!

I didn't know a longer cord would fit in the storage hole, so I'll buy one. Thanks for that tip!

I won't get to my parents until 11:30 at the earliest and ideally I'd like to leave at 4pm to get home at a reasonable time.

I'll let you know how it goes if anyone is interested. I'm hoping to avoid any range anxiety altogether. Prevention is better than cure! ;-)

[ultrarnr]

Steve,

In some cases RV parks are the only option to charge at. If you look on Plugshare you will see there is a campground in Little Fort that I have charged at. There are Apps such as RV Parky and Allstays Camp and RV that show where campgrounds are at. Yes you may need an adapter and expect to pay for charging but it does give you more options. With my 2014 SR I could make it from Hickory to Asheville in the summertime but not in colder temps. Charging at Little Fort was the only way I could make the trip. Think they charged $10.00 to charge. Considering the area you live in campgrounds are a more common option than J1772 stations.

I am planning on riding out to Deals Gap sometime this summer. Have to charge in Asheville, maybe we could link up.

Vinny

[mrwilsn]

I didn't know a longer cord would fit in the storage hole, so I'll buy one. Thanks for that tip!

A 15ft 14AWG will fit but you have to wind it very neatly and it will be a tight fit.  A 25ft cord is too long to fit.

I don't mind the tight fit because I almost never use that cable, it's mostly for emergencies. I bought a 25 footer that stays plugged in at my garage and I keep one end plugged into the outlet and the other end hangs from a hook on the wall next to where I park the bike.  Its my own personal refueling station [emoji2]

Since I do most charging at home it means I hardly ever use the 15ft cord in the frame which saves me the time it takes to pull the thing out and wind it back up all the time.

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[benswing]

I push the range of my bike frequently and always try to have a plan B.  There is usually a point in the journey, about 2/3 of the way, when I check to see if I have enough range to get to my destination.  If so, I just go.  If no, then I go to the charging station that I planned for before starting the ride.  Only had to divert once or twice since you get to know your bike pretty well after a fashion.


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[laramie LC4]

my friend is a new zero dealer, he has been a local moto shop/repair place for several years. real good guy.

he let me and 3 guys take 4 zeros out for a test ride. it was about 40 degrees (very cold for tucson) and the route was mostly sustained speeds with a final trip down I-10 back to the shop.

we left the shop with a DS-R, SR, S, and FX-S. all of us rode like total hooligans the whole time, fast off the start, lot's of short hot bursts.

i plan on buying the FX-S, plus i wanted the guys to have the fun, so i chose it for the final trip back to the shop. i think i was at 20% when we rolled out and hit I-10. i anxiously watched as the numbers dropped as we did 70+ on the highway. the number rolled to 2% as i pulled off on the exit to the shop. it slowed in power output but stil was able to carry 60+ the whole way. i thought for sure i was toast but survived without a scratch.

45 total, very cold, very fast, with lot's of sustained speeds miles. can't wait to get mine.

laramie