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[Electric Terry]

The light will turn green after a few minutes, I go to twist the throttle and nothing.  

This is what mehve is reporting.  Do you have to do the key on/off thing to recover, or do you just twist the throttle again?
Is there any error codes on the display or BMS when this occurs?

It always requires a key off/on, I'm getting really good at waddling the bike with my legs up to 5-10 mph as i frantically switch the key back and forth hoping for the motor to energize.   

[dkw12002]

This sounds too dangerous. I would get it to the dealer and ask them to get back to me when it was 100%. Even a false start at a stop sign can get you rear-ended. The throttle shouldn't require any special knowledge to work. It's starting to sound like a Chinese scooter.

[jpaulus]

Unfortunately my 2012 S ZF9 started having this motor stuttering and then acceleration cutoff this week as well.  I just picked the bike up in May and have about 1200 miles on it all in dry weather.  The cutoff has happened 3 times this week all doing 50-70mph (I ride SPORT mode only) with a steady throttle on the highway with one of those cutoffs in a tunnel with no place to go.  The first time I pulled off and restarted.  The second time I rebooted while moving.  The third time, in the tunnel, I had to reboot twice.  This doesn't give me the warm fuzzies. 

Since I'm in the Bay Area I wouldn't mind some of that great customer service that Richard received.  Ironically, I'm scheduled to speak to the CEO tomorrow. 

[Electric Terry]

Unfortunately my 2012 S ZF9 started having this motor stuttering and then acceleration cutoff this week as well.  I just picked the bike up in May and have about 1200 miles on it all in dry weather.  The cutoff has happened 3 times this week all doing 50-70mph (I ride SPORT mode only) with a steady throttle on the highway with one of those cutoffs in a tunnel with no place to go.  The first time I pulled off and restarted.  The second time I rebooted while moving.  The third time, in the tunnel, I had to reboot twice.  This doesn't give me the warm fuzzies.  

Since I'm in the Bay Area I wouldn't mind some of that great customer service that Richard received.  Ironically, I'm scheduled to speak to the CEO tomorrow.  

Ok, this makes about 10 of us now, and jpaulus you might be the first in the Bay Area.  You could do the rest of us a great service by getting your bike to Zero for diagnostics ASAP.  Protomech is scheduled to be shipping his bike back soon in a crate if it hasn't happened already, but it might be a week or more before they receive it.  

I have a feeling if matt, luke and ryan can take a look at your bike, they can soon tell the rest of us what to do to prevent shipping it back to them.  I'm hoping for a simple fix like reprogramming the sevcon timing to the motor when the motor is hot, or possibly shielding the sensor wires from any stray magnetic fields it might be picking up.  I think John at moto energy said they are just 2.5 volt sine and cosine wave signals and it's possible if they are in the exact right coil close to other wires they might somehow be being distorted in certain high amp draw conditions from the motor.  

If it's anything like my issues, the motor and controller communicate perfectly 99% of the time, but 1% of the time the controller gets confused on where the motor is and has it work against itself and it takes rolling the bike front and back while rebooting to get it to pick up the motor sensors correctly.   Please call them and try to get it in there as soon as convienent to you.  

With an issue as potentially serious as this i would guess the boss would pay them overtime to work through the weekend if necessary to figure this one out as more and more bikes hitting over 1000 mile mark are all developing the same issue and the sooner they can develop a "fix' the higher chance of avoiding an inexperienced rider having this issue appear for the first time in traffic and not being prepared to get out of traffic safely.  Please let us know right away when you take it in.  Thanks!  

On a lighter note, you will enjoy your talk with Mr. Walker.  He is a great guy!

[JohnSki]

Offthegrid, I was thinking if you’re moving the sensor cables and this had some effect, you might need some kind of filter for the noise induced on the lines.  I would be guessing that it would most likely be a RF (radio frequency) noise and not a magnetic one. 

One simple remedy would be using a ferrite bead or core like you normally see on the back of computer monitors or sometimes on USB cables.  Here is a Wiki link for an explanation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead

  It is also possible that rapping a grounded wire around the cable can help. Computer cables evolved from using a shielding to a number of twists per inch (5-6). The question I would still have is why this is not showing up in the bike when new.

Obviously the best fix would be to have the manufacture address it.

[jpaulus]

So I had my call with the CEO today and he seemed quite interested in my Glitch.  I was called shortly afterward by the warranty manager who set me up with an appt to get my bike checked out in the morning in SF along with a controller software update and an encoder sync.

It sounded like they do not yet know what the actual cause is but hopefully my bike can provide additional info.

[ColoPaul]

Update, 3 weeks.

The new BMS board from Zero was supposed to be here.  It's not.  Total calls from Zero or my dealer over the last three weeks = 1.   

I called my dealer and they said they have no word from Zero.  They said they don't even have the BMS recall kits which they were supposed to have by July 23.
I called Zero and told them my story.  The guy I talked to said they have had a hard time with building the BMS boards.  He assured me that the new BMS board would fix the glitch, and then went on to describe protomech's original bms-corrosion-false-temp-failure issue.   I told him I wasn't getting any error codes - just cutouts - he again assured me the new BMS board would do the trick.  Afterwards I realized that several of us have had the glitch with the 'new' BMS board.  I'm thinking Zero has another recall in it's future!

So I had my call with the CEO today and he seemed quite interested in my Glitch.  I was called shortly afterward by the warranty manager who set me up with an appt to get my bike checked out in the morning in SF along with a controller software update and an encoder sync.

Interestingly, I got the email earlier this week from Sylvie; and my time to talk to the CEO is Monday.  You can guess what I might have to say to him.

[Electric Terry]

Offthegrid, I was thinking if you’re moving the sensor cables and this had some effect, you might need some kind of filter for the noise induced on the lines.  I would be guessing that it would most likely be a RF (radio frequency) noise and not a magnetic one. 

One simple remedy would be using a ferrite bead or core like you normally see on the back of computer monitors or sometimes on USB cables.  Here is a Wiki link for an explanation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead

  It is also possible that rapping a grounded wire around the cable can help. Computer cables evolved from using a shielding to a number of twists per inch (5-6). The question I would still have is why this is not showing up in the bike when new.

Obviously the best fix would be to have the manufacture address it.

Great suggestions Johnski, and I'm just as perplexed as you on why it seems to not show up right away.  I have had another 3 days without any issues whatsoever and I've logged 3-400 miles since the last cutout.  Just crossed 7000 miles yesterday.  Before moving the harness I used to have multiple issues in a single 20 mile trip.  But an interesting observation, perhaps totally unrelated, but it's been about 10 degrees cooler the past few days and the surface temp of the blacktop is probably 30 degrees cooler from the cloud cover.   The only reason I mention this is because although we all think it has to do with mileage, perhaps it's because when all the new bikes had low mileage, it was also Feb, Mar, April and May and temps were cooler.  Probably not related, but I figure communicating all the observations we see to each other and we might see a trend.   Or maybe it's a combination of a few things all at the same time that cause it.

I wish I was at Zero today and could be there to see them working on jpaulus's bike.  I'm crossing my fingers they figure it out by the end of the day and someone posts on the forum asap what the fix is.

[protomech]

I got one glitch in early May in the evening (temp likely in the high 70s), one glitch in early July (temp in the 100s), and frequent glitches now (temp in the 80s to 90s).

Aside from the single glitch in July, I had no other issues with the bike during the 1000 miles I put on it in July, temps very often over 100 degrees.

[jpaulus]

So my bike was serviced for this issue at a shop in Daly City today.  They took diagnostics for Zero as they spoke to them on the phone, updated the software and resynced the encoder.  On my 'test' drive it cutout about 5-7 additional times on the highway which turned out to be a one exit trip, an eventful one, back to the shop.  The software update apparently didn't take.  They did it again and the bike is seemingly riding fine now.  Hopefully Zero got some good data.

Has anyone else had this same software update only to have the problem come back some time later?  (My Vectrix used to have a very similar issue when the encoder got dusty and would need cleaned off.)

[Electric Terry]

On my 'test' drive it cutout about 5-7 additional times on the highway which turned out to be a one exit trip, an eventful one, back to the shop.  The software update apparently didn't take.  They did it again and the bike is seemingly riding fine now.  Hopefully Zero got some good data.

Keep us informed, is it still running fine?  How many miles have you ridden so far?   This sounds promising!! 

[jpaulus]

So after my Glitch service today I rode to work on a highway ride of about 20 miles (reply #144) and I was Glitch free.  After work I was testing once more, approaching the end of my highway commute when the Glitch returned, unfortunately.  The bike is much better given where it was before but it does not appear to be cured.  

To summarize, my first Glitch was less than a week ago and it got worse quickly, so much so that on the 30 mile trip to get it serviced I had to preemptively reboot it on the highway several times when the motor started pulsing which usually signals a cut out.  On my test ride it cut out many times right in a row just before the software update that helped significantly.

I've informed Zero and the service dept of the local shop and we'll see what happens.  I will have a chance to test it out some more tomorrow but after that I will be restricted to 4 wheels for a week.  If the bike regresses as quickly as it did the last time then I should know relatively soon.  

Without a fix to this problem this bike is just not safe.

[expevride]

I have a 2012 DS and it recently quit after a very strong "shudder" from the motor. I brought it in for the recall and they did the update and gumpucky on the connectors, 1 day later, it shuddered and shut off again, I turned the key off then on and I made it home ( limping) the service rep says he will contact Zero and see what they can do. Meanwhile it really sucks to not be able to trust your transportation, my guess is something must be replaced and not just "remapped, rebooted, or updated" also it never showed a code of any kind or any warning lights. Hopefully this will be resolved quickly as to not have a large amount of people inconvenienced and tarnish the electric bikes reputation.

[ColoPaul]

my guess is something must be replaced and not just "remapped, rebooted, or updated" also it never showed a code of any kind or any warning lights. Hopefully this will be resolved quickly as to not have a large amount of people inconvenienced and tarnish the electric bikes reputation.

Well put.  I couldn't agree more.

[Electric Terry]

Meanwhile it really sucks to not be able to trust your transportation, my guess is something must be replaced and not just "remapped, rebooted, or updated" also it never showed a code of any kind or any warning lights.

If there is such a part, it would be the controller.  I've been carefully noting when and where my cut outs occur and it's never when the bike is 'cold" or just going.  Always a few miles in, and usually after some higher speeds.  i'm thinking the controller might be a little undersized for spirited riders on a continuous basis.  Perhaps continued thermal limitation has caused stress inside the controller.  The Gen4 size4 is only good for 140 continuous amps.  At 66 volts thats 9000 watts.  That's not enough to maintain 70 mph.  For me at least I believe the controller is constantly under stress and working to it's max capability.

At approximately the same width 170mm vs 168mm there is a size 6 gen 4 sevcon controller, just a little longer and with a few mounting adapters can easily fit.  It can handle 660 boost amps (10 sec) versus the 420 for the size 4.  Significant difference!!!!

Not that the motor might ever demand that much, but at least it's on tap and the controller has more thermal ability to remain happy.  I know the guys at zero are working hard trying to figure this out for all of us, but I'm would be wiling to spend the money on a controller that would be less stressed and see if 2000 miles later it's still trouble free (I should do that in less than 30 days at the rate I ride) and if so see if Zero could get credit for the faulty (if it turns out to fix it) size 4 sevcon and then credit us back all but the difference in the size 4 to 6 upgrade to those who wish to do it, since it shouldn't cost them anything if they get credit from Sevcon.  About $200 i think and well worth the cost if it leads to long term trouble free riding.

I hate throwing parts at something trying to do a diagnosos, but due to the dangerous severity of this issue, and the number of bikes with growing mileage, I think we need to trying something ASAP, and see what works.  If I was playing poker, I'd bet a fair amount on an upgraded controller if that was what I was delt, but wouldn't necessarily go "all in" just yet.