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[trikester]

I hope it turns out to have been the problem and therefore an easy fix.

I don't have nearly as many miles on my bikes, as you guys do, because of mostly dirt riding, no daily commute, and having bought a second ZERO. When I started riding the 2012 I quit putting miles on the 2010. Hopefully by the time I get to the mileage where you guys started having the problem there will be a known cause and solution.

I think you are correct in my 2010 MBB problem being different than the MBB problems others are having.

Trikester

[Electric Terry]

Ok, possibly great news, but I dont want to jump the gun and have everyone go moving their sensor harness yet, but I just went on another 30 mile ride this morning and the bike has never run so good.  This is the first time since getting the motor to controller recalibrated that i haven't felt any roughness from the motor.  Not only not a single cut out, but it felt more powerful and I barely used 2 bars of battery.  Not sure about the battery using less but unless something is funky with the battery display today it is definitely going further on less energy!  The motor ran so smooth and didn't have any vibration at all!!!  i'm going to do a lot more riding today and tomorrow and cross my fingers on this one.  Hopefully its not just coincidence, but I thought I should post right away to let everyone know.  

Edit as of 9 PM Saturday: Another 25 miles down without a cut out.  I think i felt a small motor vibration for just a brief second and then it went away and never returned.  The jury's not in on this yet, but whether it is the placement of the connection or just moving the wires around to help a loose connection im thinking this helped for sure.

[mehve]

Hello Mehive.  You might try being more positive when opening the throttle. I think the stalling issue when at a stop has to do with the throttle.  It takes more movement of the throttle to get the bike rolling in Eco mode than is true for most IC motorcycles.  Try giving the throttle a positive turn when taking off from a stop in that mode and see if that helps.

Hi!
When you say "positive", does that mean roll throttle forward to make sure it's all the way closed before rolling it back to accelerate? I will certainly try it! I'm almost hoping for a "by design" reverse throttle (that can be consistently engaged when needed), rather an inadvertent one. My driveway slopes down and it's not until I'm on the incline when I see whether there's room between the two cars parked there and was on tip-toe on a slope, wishing I could go back up to the top of the driveway to get out of the heat...

I have also noticed that the motor is "louder" now than it had been. And would growl a couple of times if I turn it on before I'm ready to ride (getting gloves on), as if my Zero is saying "let's go already!" That is normal, I hope?

I am not worried, just wondering. You gentlemen seem like really calm and collected folk, and I am very encouraged by it.


+ m

[mehve]

Mehive did your bike fall over to the right side => throttle?

I also had a defect throttle and your loss of power reminds me to mine.

I have the feeling the throttle is not very valuable.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a Quantya dealer, he is testing different throttles.
Maybe I will pick up one if his results are positive.

The bike fell to the left, thankfully. But my left mirror is now loose and I don't quite see a way to tighten in. I've started taking the highway and the wind just about folds the mirror so I see my stomach instead of behind me. (I'll be checking the manual in a bit).

+ m

[mehve]

I have not had to do the key-of-on reboot while on the road.  But the first time the no-throttle-response incident, I thought I accidentally hit the throttle cut-off switch (so I toggled that).

1) was it raining, or had the bike recently gotten wet?

    I have ridden in the rain a few times between the 250-500 odometer reading, but have only noticed the delayed throttle response starting around 600.

2) how many miles were on the bike when it first occurred?

    I don't recall 100%, but it started around 600+ (bike now has about 985)

3) how many total times has it happened?

    perhaps 10 times... happens at any one stop during a ride

4) have you only gone to twist the throttle and no power, or have you been riding, heard a "clunk" and have it cut off?

    Twist/no-power

5) has anyone had the bike try to go backwards when twisting the throttle?

    No. Although this would be neat if it happens when expected.

6) have you ever had to unplug and replug for any reason the wiring harness going to the motor or move it's routing for any reason?

    No.

7) Do any of you frequently switch between sport and Eco mode?

    Only occasionally, when I go on the highway (which is infrequent at this time)

[Richard230]

Hello Mehive.  You might try being more positive when opening the throttle. I think the stalling issue when at a stop has to do with the throttle.  It takes more movement of the throttle to get the bike rolling in Eco mode than is true for most IC motorcycles.  Try giving the throttle a positive turn when taking off from a stop in that mode and see if that helps.

Hi!
When you say "positive", does that mean roll throttle forward to make sure it's all the way closed before rolling it back to accelerate? I will certainly try it! I'm almost hoping for a "by design" reverse throttle (that can be consistently engaged when needed), rather an inadvertent one. My driveway slopes down and it's not until I'm on the incline when I see whether there's room between the two cars parked there and was on tip-toe on a slope, wishing I could go back up to the top of the driveway to get out of the heat...

I have also noticed that the motor is "louder" now than it had been. And would growl a couple of times if I turn it on before I'm ready to ride (getting gloves on), as if my Zero is saying "let's go already!" That is normal, I hope?

I am not worried, just wondering. You gentlemen seem like really calm and collected folk, and I am very encouraged by it.


+ m

What I was trying to say was to make sure that the throttle was fully closed when coming to a stop and to open it more quickly and further when taking off after stopping, especially when in "Eco" mode.

[ColoPaul]

The bike fell to the left, thankfully. But my left mirror is now loose and I don't quite see a way to tighten in. I've started taking the highway and the wind just about folds the mirror so I see my stomach instead of behind me. (I'll be checking the manual in a bit).

+ m

There's a special tool that came with the bike for tightening up the mirrors - hopefully your dealer gave it to you!

I have another question - when the 'glitch' happens to you - do you have to turn the key off/on again for the bike to work?   I re-read an earlier post of yours and it appears that you do not have to do that.  I think that most of the 'glitch' reports on this thread have "key off/on" in common.

[trikester]

Hey, I didn't get that mirror tool or any other tools with my 2012 DS

I wonder how many other tools were supposed to come with the bike? Of course with no place on the bike to carry tools (or even registration) I guess it doesn't matter.

I placed a little lexan "drybox", for tools, right behind the seat on the 2012 and right under the seat (stuck to it) on the 2010.

Trikester

[protomech]

Ok, possibly great news, but I dont want to jump the gun and have everyone go moving their sensor harness yet, but I just went on another 30 mile ride this morning and the bike has never run so good.  This is the first time since getting the motor to controller recalibrated that i haven't felt any roughness from the motor.  Not only not a single cut out, but it felt more powerful and I barely used 2 bars of battery.  Not sure about the battery using less but unless something is funky with the battery display today it is definitely going further on less energy!  The motor ran so smooth and didn't have any vibration at all!!!  i'm going to do a lot more riding today and tomorrow and cross my fingers on this one.  Hopefully its not just coincidence, but I thought I should post right away to let everyone know.

Offthegrid,

Any update?

[Electric Terry]

Offthegrid,

Any update?

It was not a full fix, I am somewhat convinced it has helped, but in the last 2 days i have had more vibration and random "motor noise".  It has not cut out while riding, but has "stalled" when sitting still for too long in traffic.  The light will turn green after a few minutes, I go to twist the throttle and nothing.  This was not the problem I was used to before however.  i had acceleration cutouts before the retiming from low speed.  High speed vibrations and cut outs after, and now after moving the harness, no moving cutouts at low or high speed, just stalling when sitting and only after an extended period.

I am convinced this has something to do with motor timing to the controller and possible interference into the sensor wires.  I wish i had the darn wire here and the software on my computer here to try different recalibrations at different motor temperatures.  Sylvie from the Zero Strategy department contacted me and my appointment to talk to Richard Walker is tomorrow.  I will be certain to talk to him about this.

Before I speak with him, how many of you would be willing to spend a little money to be able to do diagnostic work, error code checking and recalibrations on your own bike from home?  Please speak up if you would like to do this so i can let him know there is interest.  Also let me know how far you are from the closest Zero dealer.

[protomech]

I inquired about purchasing a diagnostic kit from Zero and was rebuffed.

My nearest dealer is ~180 miles away.

[ColoPaul]

The light will turn green after a few minutes, I go to twist the throttle and nothing.  

This is what mehve is reporting.  Do you have to do the key on/off thing to recover, or do you just twist the throttle again?
Is there any error codes on the display or BMS when this occurs?

[mehve]

Paid careful attention to how I'm twisting the throttle the last couple of days. Broke the 1000mi mark over the weekend (yay!)
The only delay on the ride today was from being  stopped on a slight incline.  About a one second delay before moving forward.

But I have not had a need to turn the key switch off and back on. I just made sure, as what Richard suggested, that the throttle was completely closed before twisting back (and faster). When I experienced a delay, I minded that, and pulling back quicker got the bike rolling again.  The lack of vibration makes it harder to tell if I have the throttle partly open (as I recall on an ICE bike, there is always a slight purr before the rumble even at the slightest pull) -- I'm not complaining, mind you.

Thanks again, guys!

As for the tool, I'm hoping it's with my spare key in a drawer somewhere. I vaguely recall seeing a black allen-wrench-looking thing through the haze of giddy when I bought my Zero.

[Richard230]

This thread shows the only tool I was given when I purchased my 2012 Zero S. It was the mirror adjustment tool and a set of instructions:

http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=2174.0

[trikester]

Thanks, I'll ask Harlan (my dealer) about it.