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[chisquare]

I wanted to share a potentially useful finding for owners of the Energica Eva, Eva Ribelle and EsseEsse9 in Europe.

Given that the original Energica LED indicators still are unavailable as spare parts, finding a suitable replacement is somewhat difficult.

It is already known that the LED indicators used on certain model years of the Aprilia Caponord are identical to those fitted to the Energica Eva family. However, these Aprilia-labelled parts usually cost around €45 each.

What may be less widely known is that the LED turn indicators used on the Fantic Caballero 700 and on the XMF/XEF 125, model years 2023–2024, also are identical. In Germany, these Fantic indicators can be ordered for around €20 each from Fantic parts suppliers.

This is relevant mainly for European Energica models, because US-market Energicas were equipped with conventional bulb indicators rather than LED indicators. If LED indicators are retrofitted to those bikes, additional resistors would be needed so that the electrical load remains within the range expected by the bike’s electronics.

One important practical note: some soldering is required for the Aprilia as well as the Fantic indicators. The easiest option is probably to reuse the cables and connectors from the original defective Energica indicators. Alternatively, suitable Molex connectors can be ordered separately. The connector type appears to be:

Molex 18–24 AWG, Standard .062” pitch / 3.68 mm, 2-circuit connector

Depending on the side of the bike, you may need either the male connector on the left side or the female connector on the right side. However, these Molex connectors are relatively expensive and quite fiddly to work with, so reusing the original Energica indicator cables may be the more practical solution.

Kudos to @jotjotde for the valuable information on the Molex connectors!

[ESokoloff]

This is relevant mainly for European Energica models, because US-market Energicas were equipped with conventional bulb indicators rather than LED indicators. If LED indicators are retrofitted to those bikes, additional resistors would be needed so that the electrical load remains within the range expected by the bike’s electronics.

Would it be possible to just change the signal flasher from electromechanical to electronic to avoid having to install resistors into the circuit.  (Assuming Energica is using electromechanical flashers).
I did this on my 2016 Zero when I upgraded to LED signals.

https://youtu.be/rpVB49LOEPM?si=lOl4RAa6NVE022MP

[chisquare]

Energicas do not use a separate flasher relay. Instead, the indicator function and load monitoring are integrated into the bike’s central electronics. Therefore, the only solution is either using indicators with a compatible current draw, or adding resistors where needed.

[ESokoloff]

I see…

If it’s that sophisticated (solid state) I wonder if its controller can be reprogrammed to work with LED’s instead of incandescent.  Of course that likely would require hardware/software that might be unavailable due to lack of support so yeah, resisters it is. 

[jotjotde]

I see…

If it’s that sophisticated (solid state) I wonder if its controller can be reprogrammed to work with LED’s instead of incandescent.  Of course that likely would require hardware/software that might be unavailable due to lack of support so yeah, resisters it is.

I beg to differ.

German company Kellermann produces modules to fix problems with non-matching lights. Installing indicators with higher wattage is possible with the 'i.SED' modules (done that successfully).
With the 'i.NEX' you even have more possibilities to adapt the bike to different lights.
https://www.kellermann-online.com/en/shop/electronic-accessories/i.nex/

[Specter]

jot....the issue with energica is that its all controlled via the board and its electronics.  the power is provided by the board, when you press the switch its not a switch like wed expect for on off its basically a pulse signal to tell the board to activate it i believe.  the board monitors current for fault detection, if it sees something off ie too much current indicating possible ground or short itll throw a fault and from my experience disable flashers totally until power cycle to reset error.  they do make led turn sigs overseas for energica don't they?  i remember reading here that the only reason for incan in the usa is because some goofy law says they have to be.  i wonder if one could simply just order that part instead,  i cant find where there is such a law just that in some systems led can cause issues with flash rates.   for my ego i just went with an external control and rerouted power.  depending on how you want to go they make cheap like slave sensors to turn it on off by sensing existing signal.

aaron

[Grauteufel]

You are right Spector, only the US has incandescent lights on these bikes (even the newer experia), so it must be some weirdo standard you have. Is it something to do with the colours?

[Specter]

grate,  the law covers brightness, color and flash rate mainly.  nowhere does it say you can not use led, just that you must be within those standards, ie dot approved appliance.  now of course some led's are not going to make those standards, and would be illegal to use, and on older systems with can flashers, an led might make its blink rate off because of current draw, just like on cars when a light would burn out, but nowhere does it specifically prohibit led bulbs.   i believe the newer bikes now come with led's in them, because they are the right color and brightness etc.

maybe in the earlier days someone said, stick with incandescent, the system is made for it and led's won't work because of a/b/c and it got repeated into being believed a law, i don't know, but unless i missed it when i searched fed / state laws i can not see any specific banning of led, just it must be a certain color.

aaron

[ESokoloff]

You are right Spector, only the US has incandescent lights on these bikes (even the newer experia), so it must be some weirdo standard you have. Is it something to do with the colours?

In order to sell an on road motorized vehicle in the US manufactures need to comply with standards/laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standard_108

Many motorcycle manufacturers appear to use the same turn signal lens (if not complete assembly) that is DOT SAE certified.
My 2016 Zero DSR is said to use units similar to KTM & looking on line it looks close if not exact to Aprilia/Energica. 
Some manufacture obtain the required certification & sells these parts to interested motorcycle manufacturers who avoid the costs of manufacturing (economizes of scale apply here).
Unfortunately (at least in the case of my Zero) these are incandescent (at least as of a few yrs ago).
In order to produce in LED, certification would have to be obtained & that might be a price too high for manufacturers to bare (again at least as of years past/might now be different).

[jotjotde]

jot....the issue with energica is that its all controlled via the board and its electronics.  the power is provided by the board, when you press the switch its not a switch like wed expect for on off its basically a pulse signal to tell the board to activate it i believe.  the board monitors current for fault detection, if it sees something off ie too much current indicating possible ground or short itll throw a fault and from my experience disable flashers totally until power cycle to reset error.  they do make led turn sigs overseas for energica don't they?  i remember reading here that the only reason for incan in the usa is because some goofy law says they have to be.  i wonder if one could simply just order that part instead,  i cant find where there is such a law just that in some systems led can cause issues with flash rates.   for my ego i just went with an external control and rerouted power.  depending on how you want to go they make cheap like slave sensors to turn it on off by sensing existing signal.

aaron

Yeah, I know that. When I started my 'blinker project' I wasn't aware of this and just found out by try and error.
Just for info: The Kellermann modules are connected to a 12 V power source (e.g. from the fuse box, using the source for the heated grips and USB port), so they provide the matching power for the indicators bypassing the bike's system while also providing an accurate signal to the electronics for NOT having fault messages or a messed up flashing rate. I run Motogadget 'Ice' indicators since Oct. '23 without any issue.

Legally allowed indicators in Europe are recognisable by the 'e-sign'. It is the letter E in a circle with a number which represents the European country where the homologation of that part has been done. It is my understanding that in USA the turn signal flashers need a DOT or SAE sign.

My thinking is, that Energica (like other non-US manufacturers) chose a flasher that has been homologated in USA as well as in Europe. The cheapest one we now have on our bikes and US customers have the disadvantage (?) that those come with incandescent bulbs.
I heard that BMWs and Ducatis are sold in the US with LED flashers, so obviously they chose another manufacturer of these parts.

[Specter]

i think even some of the newer harleys have led lights on them now.  After doing some more looking around i think what also may have added to the confusion is, americans love to garbage up their bikes with lights, flashiung, led, flourescent,  blinkey blink bla bla it looks like the circus is in town.  some folks may have tried to say well that is my turn signal and officer not-so friendly said umm no.  turn signals are incandescent bulbs not some circus string wrapped around twice that changes 32 colors.

you are correct, the dot is the mark of the approved stuff in the usa.  im glad you got your light project working,  what a pain in the ass huh?? something as simple as a light bulb turns into such a nightmare.

aaron

[jotjotde]

Well, I love to put some shiny blingy stuff on my diva 

Ultimatively I plan to put some nice serial indicators (German Lauflichtrichtungsanzeiger ) on her.
Those are bl**dy expensive and have 21 Watt each in spite of having LEDs, so you can imagine their brightness.
Surely a huge safety plus, considering how difficult it is sometimes to see a flashing indicator on a sunny day.

[ESokoloff]

……..
and have 21 Watt each in spite of having LEDs, so you can imagine their brightness.
………..

Are you sure that the led unit is not the equivalent of 21w incandescent or that trees a decimal point between 2 & 1?
Incandescence draw upwards of 7x that of LED so I’m questioning 125+ equivalent watt output.
Would be Ok in sunlight but overpowering/dangerous @ night.   

[Specter]

yah that is bright.  the main thing is puttring it where it is needed.  a lot just glare the light all over and light the place up like a magnesium candle, but if they are designed properly and can put it down on the road /. and out a bit, again down to the road so you can see what's in front of you and not just illuminate the fog then you got some nice lights there.  i have a head lamp i wear on my hardhat thats got some crazy lumens and can put out some heat too, ive sometimes wondered about somehow mounting it as a spotlight-headlight.  when something blows in the switch yard at 3 am and its pitch dark, its nice to have something that can light the place up for you.  im kind of surprised nobody has done anything with lasers yet, have it mounted a bit lower maybe but with beam splitters, can easily manipulate the beam to like aim it in front of you but then fan it out across your lane.  with optical latency it'd give the appearance of a solid sheet of light and being a laser its nicely focused and not just lighting everything up period.

aaron

[jotjotde]

@Aaron: There are Headlamps using Laser already, at least I know BMW has done it for high beam.