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[MVetter]

Being that I used to make my own chargers, I have never used Zero's Charge Tank on a gen 2 bike. Recently a friend asked if I would help him find a used Zero to cut down costs on his commute. I found a lovely low-mileage 2018 DSR with great battery logs about 150 miles North of me. It had the Charge Tank installed. Yes, the 57 Amp one, gen 2 NOT the short-lived 2.5kW unit. Buddy gave me cash and I hitched a ride up to Berkeley with the intent of riding it home to make sure everything was working. It wasn't, and I had a rather terrible trip. The Charge Tank would stop working after ~20 minutes. Starting a new session would only have it run a few more minutes. Gathering that data from multiple EVSEs led me to believe the unit was overheating, potentially from blocked fans or something else.

I pulled the tank plastics off and tried charging it to see if the plastics were causing airflow problems. Nope, same result. Inspecting the unit closer reveals that it is, in my opinion, a less than optimal design. There are 4 fans in the 4 corners of the unit on the face closest to the rider (top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right). The pull air from back to front along two sets of heat sinks: one on top, the other underneath. The bracket that holds the Charge Tank in place partially blocks the airflow on the top 2 fans. By design.

I took the mounting bracket off and perched the Charge Tank on the frame of the bike and started a new charge session. It works perfectly. There were also no obstructions/debris/rats nests anywhere in the unit. completely clean. My question is as follows:

What the hell, Zero? How is this thing supposed to pull air when this is all assembled? Has anyone else experienced this? I'm looking at replacing the crappy little server fans with ones that don't suck but I don't have any idea how much current I can pull or if the unit will get very mad at me. I'm just looking for ideas because what I was hoping to be just a simple pick up and delivery of a bike to a friend is becoming a headache. I also did call a friend who, until recently, worked for Zero in the service department. I explained everything I observed and he was like, "Wow hey that's wild. Usually they just work or they don't. I've never seen what you're talking about."

".... I see. Well, thank you."

So first off has anyone else had this? Were you able to find a workaround? Anyone know how many watts the 12v system on the Charge Tank can put out so I can use 4 beefier replacement fans? Thanks.

[NEW2elec]

Out of curiosity, the 1.3 charger can work on EU 240V outlets pulling 6amps instead of the 12 in the US.

Can the charge tank not pull 240V from the station only needing 25amps for 6kw charging?

Everyone talked about the lower onboard chargers lasting longer on the 240V supply.

[MVetter]

You continue to have no idea how electricity works.

[ESokoloff]

You continue to have no idea how electricity works.

I don’t get it.
Seems he’s comparing amp draw @ 240v vs 120v.
Double the volts, half the amps.
Amps equals heat so best to keep them as low as possible. 
That said, it doesn’t help you with your issue tho. 

[MVetter]

Yes not only does it have nothing to do with the issue the unit is already only pulling 23 amps from the grid AND CONVERTING IT TO 57 AT ZERO'S VOLTAGE which is literally the only thing the unit does.

[TheRan]

I didn't realise they had fans as I've only ever seen photos of the units from the side, but it makes sense for how much waste heat they'd be dealing with. Do you have any photos you could share? I'm curious to see how badly they messed up with the mounting bracket.

[MVetter]

I took the plate that usually sits atop the heat sink fins off for visibility. There's a picture of the unit out of the pocket which is completely unobstructed and *works*. Then there's the unit in the pocket, and finally the bracket dangled on. It's really the bottom fans that have nowhere to draw air from. I seriously don't understand this design.

[DonTom]

Double the volts, half the amps.

While that can be true with some Zero designed chargers (weird designs do weird things) the norm is:


Doubling the voltage will double the current into the same resistance (load) which means FOUR times the wattage.


That is why a lot of things blow out with excessive voltage.


Heat is really watts but more current needs thicker wires to get the same wattage when the voltage is reduced and vice versa. Therefore, thinner wires can be used at higher voltages for the same wattage as lower voltages.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[TheRan]

I see, they've really crammed it in there. What is that silver box? It's been a while since I took my tank off but I don't remember seeing that in there. I was thinking it may be the doghouse and if so I have a 7.2 so it would make sense it wouldn't be in that location as the battery is at the front with the storage compartment in the rear. If it's not attached to the battery I'm just wondering whether it could be relocated easily, even if it's just scooted towards the back of the bike a little bit.

[MVetter]

That is the doghouse, and no I can't move it. I posted this question elsewhere and someone else suggested maybe my fans were installed backwards. My contact, who used to work in Zero's service dept, texted me to say the fans should be drawing in air from the front and blowing it out back. Mine do the opposite, so I'm gonna swap them and see what happens.

[TheRan]

I didn't look closely at the fans so assumed they were blowing front to back, odd for them to be the other way round. You should get a little bit cooler temps as the fans will draw in air from any open space at the front of the charger and along the way, currently they're only drawing in air from the surface area that the fan blades cover. I don't know how much space there is for the bottom fans but if the configuration is the same as the top ones it looks like you could fit some slightly thicker ones in there too.

[NEW2elec]

MVetter "Being that I used to make my own chargers"

but you left out this part.

That failed and failed and fried people's bikes and we had to file bankruptcy but gave away all the equipment so the people we owed money to couldn't recoup anything.



"AND CONVERTING IT TO 57 AT ZERO'S VOLTAGE which is literally the only thing the unit does"

It turns into direct current by magic.

The fact that those chargers have been out for almost ten years and no one has ever posted this problem would hint it's not a design flaw itself, but a unit or charger problem.

enjoy your day.

[MVetter]

That failed and failed and fried people's bikes and we had to file bankruptcy but gave away all the equipment so the people we owed money to couldn't recoup anything.

ohhhhh shit are we just straight up doing libel here now? Please present any evidence of the units I made frying a bike. And, if it's not too much to ask, please name some of the people we owed money to and scammed. Take your time. I'll wait because I know how difficult interpreting these words will be.

The fact that those chargers have been out for almost ten years and no one has ever posted this problem would hint it's not a design flaw itself, but a unit or charger problem.

jesu christe man you just figured out what this thread was about. I'm literally trying to diagnose a unit. You *CAN'T* be that stupid.

[zerodog]

Unfortunately, that is my experience with my rapid charger, too.  They overheat and shutdown.  I ended up putting an old 2.5kw charger I had lying around instead, because the 6kw unit wouldn't work when you plug in any evse that is less than 6kw.  So, I can't plug into any shared site if someone is already there, or will be after I've been charging.  For some reason, a lot of the chargepoint chargers in San Jose are 6kw shared units.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I have had no problems with the charge-tank in my 2018 SR. Well, except limits due to the design (not starting to charge except being switched on and only single phase). It charges at three or six kilowatts, depending on the charger I plug it into (usually three). No overheating (230 volt grid).

I wish it had a three phase charger instead of single. Then it could charge at almost ten kilowatts at almost all charging stations. With 20 possible at 22 kilowatt charging stations (depending on charger).