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[STICKY]

Hi Energica/Experia community,
I was doing some cleaning and chain maintenance when I noticed some pulsing/lurching/huffing, etc, of the chain drive. I took two videos with sound, but it doesn't look like I' can attach them to this post.

Video 0710 copy. My Experia is in Reverse and it starts to make the lurching sound accompanied by visible chain pattern-slowing at less than 6 MPH.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/189324978@N05/shares/09Kc6w937t

Video 0711 copy. My Experia is in Crawl. It takes a little longer to get the same effect, but it does happen at less than 4 MPH.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/189324978@N05/shares/R6760mW0P3

I hope you'll review the vids and forgive my ignorance. I'm normally pretty good at researching, but I'm getting stuck as I don't know correct terminology.

My chain tension does seem to be within or near the 35 mm, but don't let that deter you. Thanks in advance for any insights or advice!

[The photo is was taken same time as vids]

[Specter]

That's perfectly normal.
you had the tire jacked up to spin the wheel to do your chain maintenance then spun it.
Your traction control sees one tire spinning faster than the other and says WTF!!  and cuts back power.  It does not know you are cleaning your chain, that's your TC kicking in.
Turn your TC all the way off and it won't do that anymore.

Aaron

Edit: let me add, that's also helpful for when it comes time to lube it up, it keeps the chain spinning at a fairly slow speed for you to spray the lube on as it's going roundy roundy w/o splashing it all over the place.  ill do that too with the cleaning brush if i have help, one hold the throttle at that low speed and spray while i hold the brush with both hands around the chain to scrub it.  have something under to catch the liquid coming off, i use burlap bags from coffee beans.  you can use this same method to put lube back on too although can manage that one handed.

[Grauteufel]

I think smithy has the solution for you……belt drive conversion!

[jotjotde]

Aaron nailed it.
I see the same effect with my Ribelle.

[STICKY]

Thanks Specter/Aaron! I'm grateful for the explanation after saying it's normal. And thanks for the attention and seconding, Grauteufel and jotjotde.

[smithy]

Thanks Specter/Aaron! I'm grateful for the explanation after saying it's normal. And thanks for the attention and seconding, Grauteufel and jotjotde.

I can 2nd, 3rd and 4th what the other guys have said....the T/C on these things is very quick and when there's no load on the wheel..it just cuts in and out very quickly giving the "hunting" you're seeing, using the cruise control is worse....turn the T/C off in the Custom menu and you'll be golden, I have my Experia up on a paddock stand often to check my belt for stone damage and adjust the tension etc...same thing happens.

Smithy.

[smithy]

I think smithy has the solution for you……belt drive conversion!

That won't fix the T/C hunting though...but I like your thinking..!

Smithy.

[Demoni]

Tried to post this Monday but the forum went down...
Totally normal.

Reverse and slow forward modes are RPM limited. With no resistance (due to the rear wheel being off the ground) the motor quickly reaches the RPM limit causing the controller to cut power. When the power is cut the motor slows down, when the RPM drops below the max value the controller energizes the motor resulting in the RPM hitting the limit again. That cycle repeating creates the pulsing behavior. When the rear wheel is on the ground and you put the bike into reverse the RPM change of the motor is slower, reducing this behavior. You can still feel a bit of an off and on power surge when going backwards. The max RPM in reverse is lower than in slow forward mode, this is why the pulsing occurs more often in that mode.

[Specter]

Good Catch Demoni, I didn't catch / register he had the F/R going on, just that he was cranking on the throttle to spin the wheel.   what I described was if he had it in normal mode, it'd do the same thing with the control cutting it out in normal too.

Either way, no matter what mode you have it in, slow or full drive mode, that pulsing is normal.   

I do wish to add:

If you do wind it up in drive mode, you can kind of walk it up a bit before it kicks in but either way TC on or not in regular mode, be careful because it can spin it up very fast, and if you get caught up in that it could be bad,  or if you got a sheet or blanket under it or something to catch your drippings and it gets caught up in the spinning wheel mechanism, that could be bad too.  Make sure if you are going to give it a good whirl, nothing is posed to jump up in your wheel / chain assy.   
Not to mention it will fling shit all over the place. 
The good side is, as some have mentioned that they don't like how the chain splatters crap all over them, hence, why smitty did his belt mod.  If you have it jacked up, turn the TC off and let it rip on the chock, you can spin it up and fling all the excess lube off while you are NOT on the bike catching everything with your back, and can catch most of it with the sheet / grass / etc, so when you DO go riding, what is left to find you, is minimal.  It's another easy way to spin the excess lube off your chain after your maintenance.

aaron

[jotjotde]

I know, lubing chains is a somewhat emotional issue for some people, similar to tires and oil 

Nevertheless, it sometimes helps to understand what chain lubing should do and what it is definitely not doing.
Refer to the attached picture.

No chain lube in the world will go underneath the O-rings (or X-rings or whatever shape they are) and replace the lube put in there in the factory.
Because these O-rings hinder the original lube to come out, they also hinder fresh lube to go in.
This lube will deteriorate over time due to stress (hydrocarbons cracking) and hydration (water molecules diffusing through the O-rings). By these mechanisms the lube is increasingly not functioning properly anymore. On some point steel rubs on steel and from then on it is a steep downhill path. The chain is lengthening, wearing out the sprocket and chainwheel which is also stressing the chain even more.

By lubing the chain you can only try to get fresh lube under the rolls (marked red in the picture). For that you need lube with penetrating characteristics.
Thick chain grease is not doing this, it might help to protect the lube under the rolls and saves the outer appearance of the chain against corrosion, but that's it.
So, excess lube on the chain only makes your bike dirty and your wallet empty.

Currently I am at 102,000 km with the bike and on my fourth chain (36,000 km), using dry lube chain spray which is simply spoken PTFE suspended in a penetrating liquid which evaporates, leaving the PTFE as a lubing film.

In my view spinning the wheel at high rpm while spraying the chain is not a good idea. I prefer turning the wheel by hand.

[smithy]

Excellent explanation jotjotde.

Agree with you too...I have a BMW S1000XR which can be hard on chains and sprockets....the current DID ZVMX chain has ~55,000km on it...I do have a home made electronic lube system on it though.

Smithy.

[jotjotde]

Homemade lube system?? 

Wow, I bow to your DIY capabilities 

55,000 km with a chain it quite an achievement!

[T.S. Zarathustra]

I know, lubing chains is a somewhat emotional issue for some people, similar to tires and oil 

Nevertheless, it sometimes helps to understand what chain lubing should do and what it is definitely not doing.
Refer to the attached picture.

No chain lube in the world will go underneath the O-rings (or X-rings or whatever shape they are) and replace the lube put in there in the factory.
Because these O-rings hinder the original lube to come out, they also hinder fresh lube to go in.
This lube will deteriorate over time due to stress (hydrocarbons cracking) and hydration (water molecules diffusing through the O-rings). By these mechanisms the lube is increasingly not functioning properly anymore. On some point steel rubs on steel and from then on it is a steep downhill path. The chain is lengthening, wearing out the sprocket and chainwheel which is also stressing the chain even more.

By lubing the chain you can only try to get fresh lube under the rolls (marked red in the picture). For that you need lube with penetrating characteristics.
Thick chain grease is not doing this, it might help to protect the lube under the rolls and saves the outer appearance of the chain against corrosion, but that's it.
So, excess lube on the chain only makes your bike dirty and your wallet empty.

Currently I am at 102,000 km with the bike and on my fourth chain (36,000 km), using dry lube chain spray which is simply spoken PTFE suspended in a penetrating liquid which evaporates, leaving the PTFE as a lubing film.

In my view spinning the wheel at high rpm while spraying the chain is not a good idea. I prefer turning the wheel by hand.

For me regular oiling of a chain is mostly to keep the rust away. It keeps the outside of the O or X rings "wet". Thereby reducing friction between rubber and metal. It reduces oxidation of the rubber. It also reduces amount of fine dust articles that reaches the rubber where it meets the metal. This slows down wear by some degree.

An old trick to extend life of your chain is to clean it thoroughly with Benzine (Gas, Petrol) or Diesel. Put it in a pot with motor oil. Heat it to 80-90 degrees Celsius for half an hour or so. Let it cool down. This forces air and dirty grease past the seals when warming and draws fresh oil in when cooling. I doubt it will be very effective today, but some used to do this every year. Clean the pot and put back into the cupboard before the wife gets home.  

[smithy]

Homemade lube system?? 

Wow, I bow to your DIY capabilities 

55,000 km with a chain it quite an achievement!

It's quite simple really, I use a "normally closed" 12v solenoid valve wired into an "ignition on" power supply under the seat, so when the ignition is on the solenoid is open.....the solenoid valve is then connected to a small ~200ml reservior of chain saw oil, the solenoid is then connected to a Festo adjustable flow regulator downstream of the solenoid and finally down to the rear sprocket using 3mm polyurethane tubing....it's all gravity feed and only cost ~$30 Aussie sheckles to set-up. Took me three or four trips to work and back to fiind the sweet spot for the flow...but once set-up, it's trouble free and very effective. The 200ml container lasts a surprisingly long time....between 5-7000km or so.....I just top it up when required.

Circled in red in the pic is the "normally closed" 12v solenoid valve fitted to my '17 BMW S1000XR.

Smithy.

[jotjotde]

@smithy:  Amazing installation!

@T.S.Z: That reminds me of a special chain wax for bicycles which claims to reduce friction by 5 Watt    That's stuff you can only sell to triathletes 
https://absoluteblack.cc/graphenwax-worlds-best-hot-melt-wax-coating-for-chain

So, both of you more or less use a 'wet' approach - using oil to flush the dirt away and keep the rollers lubricated.