Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ESokoloff]

I’m not sure how anyone (let alone “Both parties“) can asses this without any testing.
Perhaps it’s a known weak point so the most probable cause for loss of low volt power.
The converter specs state 180~400vdc @ 4a input & in my opinion it needs to be determined that this voltage is or is not inputted before condemning the unit.
Can you find a 4amp(+-) 400+ vdc fuse between the battery & the converter? 
If input power is present then the next step would be troubleshooting the trigger circuit.
Consult manufacturer for that procedure.

In a related issue, the low volt power on my 2016 Zero DSR would intermittently drop out & re-establish in its own.
The fault turned out to be pinched enable (ignition) circuit wire caused by steering headstock pinch. 
Not suggesting your bike has this issue but mentioning it as definitive root cause must be determined via troubleshooting. 


Where in SoCal are you located?
I have a VOM & know how to use it if your not too far away.

[Specter]

i did a little research on this and it appears this is a fairly common problem with the energica bikes.
the brick itself, the cincon on top of your photo is the culprit most all the time,  it's soldered onto the board as you can see.
past people have reported removing the brick, soldering a new one in, and it works fine. 
the pcb is a custom pcb made by energica, so if you wanted the entire thing you'd most likely have to go through them for the entire assembly.  unless of course they outsourced the entire mod and you can find where.

im thinking this thing is going to have hv on it all the time, since the 12 volt is always on, even when the bike isn't for the immobilizer and stuff right?  so once you open the battery case you'd have to disconnect the bus carefully to de energize it.
 

once power is off you should be able to undo the molex plugs and slide it out to work on, and it's a quick solder job really.  one note make sure you take the insulator or pad off the bottom of it or it may overheat and cause problems.

As a side note for those who were looking for more power for their stuff, this converter is said to be able to handle 50 amps, but would need a cooling fin along with the aluminum base it already comes with.  I also wouldn't know if energica monitors current draw and that could cause grief as well.  not to mention there already is enough heat probs with the bike, and room is at a super premium.

Digikey
Jameco
Mouser  all stock this, you might be able to get one on amazon / ebay as well i didn't check there.

as another note.   the N in the name implies  it's N logic state. so the on signal is a logic low  vs having voltage on the pin. so when you order the new one, that N does matter in your case since you can't / really don't want to be swapping wires around or adding parts to flip the signal.

as an off the wall comment.
ok you are not comfortable working with high voltages.
since it's really just 'electronics' you are working with.  if the board is fairly accessible you might be able to get a tv repair or electronics repair shop to work on it.  They work with those voltage ranges all the time, and it's not like they are going to get oily greasy or dirty really.  maybe explain to them it's just changing out a circuit board on a power supply... they might do it for you.  it's worth a try if you can't find someone else.  they might squirm at the hot battery but it's no different than working on an inverter really when you open it up inverter/ups with battery pack.

Aaron

here's the pin config
PinFunction
1–Vin
2+Vin
3–On/Off (your N version)
4+On/Off
5–7+Vout (3 pins)
8–10–Vout (3 pins)
11–Sense
12+Sense
13Trim
14PC (Power Good)
15IOG
16AUX (7–13 V / 20 mA)

i believe 16 is a pilot signal to let you know the board is working and outputting voltrage

good luck.    their website itself has diagrams and stuff too that might help you or a potential fixer upper.

[ESokoloff]

i did a little research on this and it appears this is a fairly common problem with the energica bikes.
the brick itself, the cincon on top of your photo is the culprit most all the time,  it's soldered onto the board as you can see.
past people have reported removing the brick, soldering a new one in, and it works fine. 
the pcb is a custom pcb made by energica, so if you wanted the entire thing you'd most likely have to go through them for the entire assembly.  unless of course they outsourced the entire mod and you can find where.

im thinking this thing is going to have hv on it all the time, since the 12 volt is always on, even when the bike isn't for the immobilizer and stuff right?  so once you open the battery case you'd have to disconnect the bus carefully to de energize it.
 

once power is off you should be able to undo the molex plugs and slide it out to work on, and it's a quick solder job really.  one note make sure you take the insulator or pad off the bottom of it or it may overheat and cause problems.

As a side note for those who were looking for more power for their stuff, this converter is said to be able to handle 50 amps, but would need a cooling fin along with the aluminum base it already comes with.  I also wouldn't know if energica monitors current draw and that could cause grief as well.  not to mention there already is enough heat probs with the bike, and room is at a super premium.

Digikey
Jameco
Mouser  all stock this, you might be able to get one on amazon / ebay as well i didn't check there.

as another note.   the N in the name implies  it's N logic state. so the on signal is a logic low  vs having voltage on the pin. so when you order the new one, that N does matter in your case since you can't / really don't want to be swapping wires around or adding parts to flip the signal.

as an off the wall comment.
ok you are not comfortable working with high voltages.
since it's really just 'electronics' you are working with.  if the board is fairly accessible you might be able to get a tv repair or electronics repair shop to work on it.  They work with those voltage ranges all the time, and it's not like they are going to get oily greasy or dirty really.  maybe explain to them it's just changing out a circuit board on a power supply... they might do it for you.  it's worth a try if you can't find someone else.  they might squirm at the hot battery but it's no different than working on an inverter really when you open it up inverter/ups with battery pack.

Aaron

here's the pin config
PinFunction
1–Vin
2+Vin
3–On/Off (your N version)
4+On/Off
5–7+Vout (3 pins)
8–10–Vout (3 pins)
11–Sense
12+Sense
13Trim
14PC (Power Good)
15IOG
16AUX (7–13 V / 20 mA)

i believe 16 is a pilot signal to let you know the board is working and outputting voltrage

good luck.    their website itself has diagrams and stuff too that might help you or a potential fixer upper.

This SO smells like AI gone awry to me….

[Specter]

Going to forums, reading what others have said and picking out stuff that is relevant is  one of the things what AI is good for, THEN checking to make sure it is pertinent to your specific problem, for when you decide to use it to help you, not just blindly gobbling up everything it says as the truth, and vomiting it out, as some have done in the past.  I seem to remember some clown about a sparking head bearing in the past.  That's an example of mindless cut and paste without any clue what you are looking at or how a system works.

if he is going to work on it, this is what he has to look out for, and be careful to get the N gate one, otherwise you'll have to either relay it or add shit to swap the logic polarity on the signal, something which is far beyond his abilities as he has stated.  It's not like he'd be working on a console or something where he can just pick another signal point, oh ill move 14-1 to 14-2 to get the low out since i got the wrong card.  Both units are identical except the N in the part number  stating that it's a logic 0 to turn it on.  If he's going to order one, and gets the other one, it wont work right for him, which could be easy to do, especially if someone who doesn't know this says, yah they both  the same, use this one.  THAT kind of shit is notorious if you are going to order stuff off e bay instead of going to mouser or a more reputable place.

While i was reading the tech paper / specifics about it from the company's own site, they gave a pin out diagram and mentioned a pilot signal, so i added that as something he could possibly check if he's comfortable up in there to see if the module is indeed bad.

if you goto reddit and query you can see threads where others have had to replace this module on their equipment and stated that it's a real simple solder job, it just drops onto a circuit board generally and solder in / solder off.  Reddit is not necessarily a bastion of truth, but is a place where a lot of people post, hey, i need xxx type stuff, i went there to see if anyone else had any dealings with this power converter.

i did ask ai about the energica bike specifically and it replied that they use their own custom board, so that kind of tells me, no you can't order the whole module.  looking at the picture he put on his op showing us the board, i seen the hv goop around the leads coming into the board.  ok you are going to have to do a lot of wiring, THEN re goop it up on the hv lines, a big pain in the ass.  much easier to just desolder the module from the board imo.

it's called actually doing a little research and checking a few places to verify what you read is probably correct.


Smells like you need to take your meds again nutboy,  now go away the adults  are speaking. 

Aaron

[FlyMig]

As far as my electrical knowledge goes, I have done all that I can do.  If I was to proceed any further the last thing I would feel is 300 Volts surging thru my body and that would be it.  Let's not push our luck hahaha 

[Specter]

That's why i mentioned that maybe an electrical / electronics repair shop, if you can find one may be able to help you.   yes it's a motorcycle but not in the sense of a normal one, it's very clean, and honestly, they are working on something very similar to an u;s/power supply, no different than sticking your dickskinners into the back of an old crt tv, until you grounded it of course.

out here, one of our colleges has a battery / ev class now, they are teaching the kids how to work on this type of stuff as a career.  i met the guy who runs it at one of the ..i guess you could call it, show off your electric vehicle events jax had. anyways, you could check your local colleges, maybe one of them has a robotics club / class, they would be heavily into this kind of nerdy stuff too.  They'd probably love the chance to work on a real live vehicle like that, and of course would be supervised / trained on handling high voltages.

like you, i don't want to be stuck with a dead bike one day, so am always looking for options how to get stuff fixed when the day comes.

the power converter is a very common item and not that hard to work on IF you are an electrical type.  if you know any navy guys, a radioman or ET would be able to do this kind of work as well, or power plant people like me in the I&C field, operator maintainer, possibly electrician.  The engineers might IF their company allows them to actually work on stuff and not just the paper side of it.  Each company is different in who does what job wise.   Ive met many co-conspirators heh, from many other power plants around and most of us, have side gigs and hobbies we do, or are into nerdtronics,..  just places you might find people who can possibly help you, if nothing pans out on the energica / e bike side.

besides for this forum, reddit and places like that are good to find and link up with people or knowledge on various topics like this.  Granted it is the internet, so travel carefully   Sadly long gone are the days where you grab a Chilton's manual and go at it knowing the knowledge is solid.

aaron

[PWM]

The fix is easy.

DC-DC converter brick can be replaced without disconnecting hard-wired conductors on front side, one needs powered solder sucker tool otherwise it's fine to remove conductors.

In either case, the high-voltage needs to be removed by disconnecting main fuse...there's no fuse inside the brick and no fuse on PCB because one can see the silkscreened connector footprint for incoming power...cannot make fuse sensitive enough @ 300V 1.85A draw for 50A when nominal load is a fraction of that.  The belly plate on battery pack needs to be removed to access main fuse, deductive reasoning not first hand knowledge.

The (7-13VDC) Aux power is sourced directly from DC-DC converter brick, at minimum this should be verified w/ DVM, see attachment layout for visual aid.  If memory serves, application notes state that Aux output is only 20mA which feeds the 315mA fuse.

Digikey will source a CFB600-300S12N replacement, let me know and I will contact them since I do regular business with them, it will likely be several weeks lead-time as none on-hand from factory at this time. $260 is standard cost.  Add 45% tariff and 10% dick brain tax on top of that and it's still worth it.

OP - what is the state of charge on battery?  I thought if keep-alive voltage drops out the bike will not wake up but not sure regarding charger circuit.

Here to help if we can.

[ESokoloff]

The fix is easy.
…….
In either case, the high-voltage needs to be removed by disconnecting main fuse...
……….

Here to help if we can.

I still contend that incoming (hi) voltage needs to be confirmed before condemning the converter.

I encourage the OP to find the 4a (or less) fuse on the conductor(s) leading from the battery to the converter.
Once found perhaps a visual &/or voltage check across the fuse will confirm the fuse condition (no need to remove as long as there’s enough bare conductor(s) to facilitate test).
If the fuse is open (circuit) then I’m guessing you should see battery voltage on meter as the meter becomes the load due to the converter only seeing one leg (+ or -) & merely passing the voltage along to the meter.
If the fuse is good then there will not be a voltage differential & the next step would be to check for hi volt @ converter.
If hi voltage is present, test for low voltage out (see above image for test points).
If none, look for fuse. Not sure if it will have voltage across it if bad.
Or just shortcut & test for input/output voltage @ converter to skip the first step.


You SHOULD be fairly safe performing this & I again extend my help in this mater (tho it might be delayed due to developing family issue).

[Specter]

PWM you are correct.   Remove that belly pan on the battery pack and there is some buswork there.  The board is behind that aluminum plate on it.  There might be a fuse in there that feeds it, im seeing that some models have one, others don't, so don't want to say for sure yes the fuse is there, w/o actually seeing HIS unit, not a general picture of one.

either way, unplug the molex plug, and wait a few for stuff to discharge, and please be VERY careful, it's hot inside that battery case, you are behind enemy lines, so to say, so there is nothing really protecting you, the voltage is lethal if you hook yourself up to it.

Chris hopefully can answer you soon, and I believe DonTom has worked on his as well, so there's 2 competent sources of info what's all inside there that might be able to help you.

So.... with the closing of Energica San Fran, there are no more dealers open in the US really to work on Energica bikes im thinking.  With this, given it's just a battery, and i do not *think* the converter is a wedded part, a zero or livewire dealer might be able to do this for you as well, given they should not have to dick with any energica proprietary code or stuff that only they can do, if it ends up the bike needs to be taken in to be repaired.  If they are comfortable working on zero / lw batts they shouldn't be too squeamish about this one.

Good luck, hopefully someone can help you get her back running.

Aaron

[FlyMig]

I'm having a new board shipped and Chris will check out the bike.  Don't know what the exact cause could be yet, I will update all of you.  We will have the bike running soon I hope :-)

Thank you Eric for your offer to help! 

[Specter]

So you got in contact with Chris,  awesome, if anyone can fix this and do it right it's him.

You are in good hands now, and yes please let us know what it tutns out to be.

Did you find the entire board or just the converter?

Aaron

[ESokoloff]

Make sure to have a spare high volt fuse (or two) just in case it’s needed. 

[FlyMig]

The entire board from that place Energica of New England. Dave has them in stock. You can also have them repaired at multiple places in Europe, with warranty and better components than the original.  Yep, Chris has been awesome. The best dude for this job for sure.

[Specter]

I know right??  what Energica did to him was absolutely fucking awful.  Him and Stefano both are the heart and soul of that company.  They'll learn soon enough, IF they ever recover.  Thankfully we have Chris around to keep our bikes going for as long as possible with what we do have though.

Aaron

[firmware]

I have the exact same problem with my 2022 Eva Ribelle...  I got to 37k miles and the immobilizer started tripping randomly, then after a few months it never powered up again.  No heartbeat, no response to charger, nothing.  Checked all fuses (including the glass cylinder fuse). 

At a loss.