Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mattbastard]

Hello everyone

I've got a line on a 2017 Zero SR that is heavily damaged.  Most specifically, the frame is cracked, but the price is perfect for a "restomod" type build. 

I've done something similar a few years ago.  I bought a 2012 XU model with a "bad battery", which ended up just being a loose connection in the BMS (even thought the battery was crap anyway).  I never got along with the OEM Alltrax controller since it wasn't programmable, so I bought an aftermarket 300A controller that bolted right into the same place and allowed me to make parameter adjustments.  I also ditched the MBB and rewired everything so it was more of a standalone build with no influence from Zero engineering. 

I'm curious about doing something similar with this SR, but since this one comes with the Sevcon controller I'm wondering if I can butcher the OEM wiring and make this unit standalone without the MBB.  I currently own a Sevcon Gen4Size6 and an ME1507 motor.  Frodus helped me a few years ago get my old laptop connected to the controller and programmed with that special magical communications device and now I have a bench tested powertrain that works off a 5K ohm potentiometer.  See this video: 

Worst case scenario, I use my controller and motor, along with the SR forks, wheels, battery, etc... and whatever else I want to reuse, and an entirely custom wiring harness.  The Sevcon has a CANbus input and I/O that I'm sure Zero makes use of for many things (Regen, ride modes, MBB comms, etc...), but can I abandon all that crap and just drive the OEM Sevcon with only the inputs it needs to work and be successful?  Or does the OEM Sevcon REQUIRE connection to the MBB in order to function?  I have a solid understanding of the Sevcon Gen4Size6 wiring.  There's a few inputs that need to happen in order to make a motor spin. 

Thanks

[MVetter]

It's my understanding that the MBB is not required. Also know that the ME1507 is a very shoddy ripoff of the 75-7 so don't expect anywhere near the power output.

[Mattbastard]

Shoddy ripoff?  It's my understanding from talking to Motenergy back in 2017 that they worked with Zero in the early teens on the ME1507 motor being used in the early S models (with the Sevcon controller) when Zero upgraded their battery tech from 48 VDC to 96 VDC.  Then Zero made their own mods to the ME1507 to the first 75-5 motor.  He said what they did but I forget, it was almost 10 years ago.  Something about better cooling IIRC.

Regardless, I'd be reusing this 75-7R motor, and hopefully the controller if I can.  My design intent with this build is reducing weight as much as possible, which means customizing the battery, or building my own design.  I'll also be building a new frame since this one's cracked. 

[Specter]

if you want to reduce weight, run 800 volts.  smaller wires, less copper.
there's always a trade off somewhere.

aaron

[MVetter]

Shoddy ripoff?  It's my understanding from talking to Motenergy back in 2017 that they worked with Zero in the early teens on the ME1507 motor being used in the early S models (with the Sevcon controller) when Zero upgraded their battery tech from 48 VDC to 96 VDC.  Then Zero made their own mods to the ME1507 to the first 75-5 motor.  He said what they did but I forget, it was almost 10 years ago.  Something about better cooling IIRC.

Regardless, I'd be reusing this 75-7R motor, and hopefully the controller if I can.  My design intent with this build is reducing weight as much as possible, which means customizing the battery, or building my own design.  I'll also be building a new frame since this one's cracked.

Yeah that's the propaganda they spread. Zero was considering using them as a manufacturer for their motor they had designed in-house. However the engineers were suspicious that Motenergy would attempt to rip them off. So when they sent the designs over to Motenergy to see how well they'd follow them they sent, shall we say, sabotaged plans that were much weaker. They decided not to go with Motenergy and, lo and behold, the ME1507 came out. Everyone I've talked to who has used that motor tells a story similar to yours and can't figure out why their ME1507 is universally described as "a sad panda".

[Mattbastard]

Yeah that's the propaganda they spread. Zero was considering using them as a manufacturer for their motor they had designed in-house. However the engineers were suspicious that Motenergy would attempt to rip them off. So when they sent the designs over to Motenergy to see how well they'd follow them they sent, shall we say, sabotaged plans that were much weaker. They decided not to go with Motenergy and, lo and behold, the ME1507 came out. Everyone I've talked to who has used that motor tells a story similar to yours and can't figure out why their ME1507 is universally described as "a sad panda".

Wow, that's interesting.  I guess I never heard the other side of the story, and since there's Chinese writing all over the motor drawing, it kind of makes sense. 

Regardless, I did buy that SR and have it mostly in pieces around my garage already.  The nice thing about all this is now I have plenty of battery modules (it also had the power tank) to play with and repurpose as I want.  And also a motor/Sevcon controller combo that I can hook my current comms cable up to and play with. 

[Mattbastard]

if you want to reduce weight, run 800 volts.  smaller wires, less copper.
there's always a trade off somewhere.

aaron

I thought about this, but 350V instead of 800V.  Then try making it work with the Supercharger network.  There's people in the DIY Electric Car forum who've done such things. 

I wasn't planning on going this route, but if there's incentives I can be pursuaded in that direction.  It looks like some of the axial flux motor manufacturers make some pretty strong 350V rated systems, but they're around $10K. 

[ESokoloff]

Hello everyone

I've got a line on a 2017 Zero SR that is heavily damaged.  Most specifically, the frame is cracked, ……..
………..
Thanks

Out of curiosity, how & where did the frame crack? 

[Mattbastard]

Hello everyone

I've got a line on a 2017 Zero SR that is heavily damaged.  Most specifically, the frame is cracked, ……..
………..
Thanks

Out of curiosity, how & where did the frame crack?

Right where the downtubes drop down from the main frame rails.  It's as if the front wheel pushed the lower front of the battery straight back, which cracked the downtubes at the welds. 

I still can't figure out how the forks lived thru this though.  They look straight as an arrow.  I'll put them in the V-blocks once I have them off the bike. 

[ESokoloff]

Back in Fall of 22 a young buck (deer) ran out in front of me (2016 DSR) just before first light.
The impact shattered the front fender & all the headlight/turn signal attachment point plastic bits (I had previously carved out the headlight housing in order to shoehorn a JW Speaker 5.75” adaptive headlight in.
I picked up all the plastic bits & while rehabilitating from the encounter reassembled everything using punched sheetmetal, stainless steel fine mesh screen, & Goop glue. I melted the fender back together via a LARGE soldering iron.
I figure the deers central mass hit between the top & bottom fork triple clamps so no damage to the forks.
Unfortunately I found that the right side rectangular tube connecting the main frame to the battery frame (down tube) had sustained a crack of its top/front weld. 
I wasn’t able to assess the severity (depth) of the crack & rather then possibly making matters worse by attempting re-welding it I elected to clamp the two sections of frame together.
I used a section of 1-1/2” 26 gauge strap & pop rivet 1/8” angle stock to the ends & tightened down with stainless machine screws.
That was 3+ yrs/20+k miles ago.
One of these days I need to take the tank off & take a “Looky see” at how things look down there. 

[Specter]

matt, forks can survive some amazing shit.  when i wrecked the ego last year, the forks were unscathed  amazingly enough.  for what i did that bike should have been destroyed but i dodged a bullet.   in your case, it sounds like The bike had a sudden stop. the forks may have been compressing to take this load into compression energy to let it back out as the spring let loose.  The battery being bolted solid now, is unsprung, so that sudden stop had nowhere to go, so the mass inertia of it just snapped stuff where it was holding.  were they stock forks or upgraded.

aaron

[Mattbastard]

matt, forks can survive some amazing shit.  when i wrecked the ego last year, the forks were unscathed  amazingly enough.  for what i did that bike should have been destroyed but i dodged a bullet.   in your case, it sounds like The bike had a sudden stop. the forks may have been compressing to take this load into compression energy to let it back out as the spring let loose.  The battery being bolted solid now, is unsprung, so that sudden stop had nowhere to go, so the mass inertia of it just snapped stuff where it was holding.  were they stock forks or upgraded.

aaron

Stock forks, I'm guessing.  They're straight as an arrow too. 

I've since completely gutted the whole bike and am now bench testing all the bits I'm keeping. 

I also separated all the battery modules and have load-banked them down to around 30% for storage.  it'll be a while before they get used so I didn't want to keep them at 110VDC for a bunch of months.