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[JaimeC]

https://thepack.news/donut-lab-unveils-worlds-first-production-ready-solid-state-battery-at-ces/

I just wonder if they'll be designed to charge at existing stations or if another "standard" has to be developed for them?  And in order to charge them at their theoretical rate, what kind of infrastructure changes will be required??

[princec]

This is the very breakthrough we all needed ... still hella expensive though. The Verge is like £40k ... wowsers.

Cas

[TheRan]

They say production costs are lower than lithium-ion, but I wonder if that assumes the same production volume. For me it's still going to be a case of I'll believe it when I see it, when there's actually customers riding the bikes out on the road. Not for the specification and performance claims but actually getting it into a product vehicle. I've heard enough claims of "coming QX of 202Y". The thing that I really don't get is how this is coming from a manufacturer that no one has heard of, not someone like Samsung, LG, Panasonic, etc. Are they just too content with current technology, they're getting enough profit from that so they can't justify investing as much into solid state?

[Grauteufel]

It charges at the existing standard DCFC stations, although the 300kw top rate charging is rare to find, with the bulk of stations being limited to 150kw (he’ll, I rarely see stations doing more than 75kw).

The 33kwh solid state battery pack is a very reasonable $5000usd more than the 20kwh standard pack, but zero details regarding weight.

I doubt production of the cells is currently huge, 12 months ago Donut (the power train manufacturer) was only 22 people and a hundred-ish million valuation.

[Specter]

solis state is a bit heavier than lion.   They also are very brittle, that was one of the major drawbacks to making them to size for stuff like cars where you need BIG batteries.  in a watch or something no problem, but car size, very frangible.

Aaron

[Curt]

After listening to years of extraordinary claims that never happen, I am absolutely not buying this. It's too on-the-nose, solving every conceivable problem in one fell swoop from this company nobody's heard of founded in 2024, while major players like Toyota, QuantumScape, Solid Power, and Factorial target 2027-2030 after a decade of focused work.

The roll-out on motorcycles rather than cars is very suspicious -- we've seen multiple companies selling an expensive mystery bike in tiny numbers dragging on for years.

Biggest red flag: does anyone think this thing shouldn't burn even more furiously when damaged? The short-out temperatures would be high enough to melt anything around them, with so much pent-up energy, in a chain reaction. The claim of "no flammable electrolytes" has to be a joke.

[Grauteufel]

The roll-out on motorcycles rather than cars is very suspicious -- we've seen multiple companies selling an expensive mystery bike in tiny numbers dragging on for years.

There’s a whole car/truck/ute/van using it too. Check out Watt Electric Vehicles is the UK.

[flynnstig82r]

Color me cautiously optimistic. I’m a lot less skeptical of Verge than some other recent high-flyers because they’ve managed to deliver an actual product that people can ride and that matched the promises made. 33 kWh is impressive, but potentially achievable, so I don’t put it in the same category of BS as, say 200 MPH and 200 miles of range. The 600 km (360 mi) range claim is nonsense, of course, unless you’re riding in a bike lane the whole time. Experia x 1.5 is roughly 195 highway miles, which would be better than most gas bikes and very welcome. Now, for my money, I’d still rather wait until the tech gets put onto an Energica or equivalent unless Verge gathers some dealers and stands the test of time. It sounds like they depend on VC money, and could be on borrowed time if investors get impatient.

[MVetter]

I will believe it when I see it. And I do not expect to see it. Verge is full of so much stupid bullshit and poor decisions.

[AsHperson]

https://youtu.be/Y-aPS2AwMbc?si=7-1Y8ZbnxHIzq9IG

This video about the battery itself is very promising. Of course you can promise all day long and not deliver like Damon/Lightning. The delivery of the verge bikes with all solid state packs at about 84kg(calculating the 33.3kwh and 400wh/kg). It feels too close to delivery for them to over promising to the extent as others. I fully expect the 200kw charge rate for only a few seconds like car EV charging, I also expect it to be a realistic 150-200mi freeway range which would be the real gamechanger. What sucks is that they still have the 3kw AC onboard charger. There's barely a pillion sliver of a seat. The bike is pretty much completely controlled by a touchscreen which is not great in the rain. There's no storage options currently besides a tiny area under the seat. The software is super early stage while it looks prototype fancy. I test rode the EU test bike at their santa Clara location about 2 months ago.

I truly feel like this could be a massive change in the industry, but also there will be lots of defective batteries until some processes could be figured out as this feels rushed out. I truly wish I could invest in donut labs for making all this happen even while being weighed down by an expensive sister company(verge motorcycles). BTW, can we get a Verge motorcycles sub-forum in the makes section here?

[MichaelJ]

The 33kwh solid state battery pack is a very reasonable $5000usd more than the 20kwh standard pack, but zero details regarding weight.

Verge welcomes questions, which can be submitted on their web site at the bottom of the page https://www.vergemotorcycles.com/faq/#contact.


A representative's answer to a question about the weight and center of gravity was:

[...T]o clarify, both the standard and the large size batteries are solid state batteries.


The weight of our standard-size SS battery is 225 kg [496 lb.], while the large SS battery weighs 235 kg [518 lb.], so the difference is minimal and does not affect the bike’s center of gravity. Thanks to our innovative design and inherently low center of gravity, the ride remains just as stable and smooth with the standard-size battery as it is with the large SS battery.

But the specs for all three models claim that the motorcycle as a whole weighs 518 lb., so I wonder which number is correct.

[Specter]

Id go with the larger number, as it will cover all models, and their butts, should anyone challenge intentional understating a major fact.

Aaron

[TheRan]

Seems like it may actually be a capacitor and not a battery, they're being very shy about the details but someone has done some digging.

https://youtu.be/Qsi-TS8PX7U?si=rrV32FeEy7I4m3DB

So some of the claims seem more reasonable, other's not so much. Should it actually be real and a capacitor instead of a battery I'm undecided on how I feel about it. It would depend on just how long it can actually hold a charge. As much as I would love to be able to charge up in a matter of minutes it wouldn't be so often, most of the time I'm using my battery at a rather slow rate (something like 3 miles a day commuting to work), one of these "batteries" could actually end up discharging more sitting there than me using it. There are also some weekends where I don't use my bike at all and I wouldn't want to have to remember to put it on charge Sunday night lest I wake up to a 0% charge after parking up on Friday (although, I suppose it wouldn't be as big a deal if it charges in a few minutes). This could also end up with a lot of wasted energy and I'd almost want to go out for a ride after work on the Friday just to make some use of it.

[Specter]

those supercaps have limits.   C rate absolutely counts and dielectric values are not very high.
also, when they first hit the market, some were bragging, 100k cycles, years and years of maintenance free performance, then the specs quietly came down to about 10k cycles and the amps they could push also came way down.

another thing to consider, a battery is chemical, it has to react to make the power, a cap is just all stored, if that were to catastrophically short,man i bet you could see some fireworks watching all those farads go woof in an instant.   granted it's just carbon and mylar but that'd be one helluva ladyinger going off!

Aaron

edit, let me add one other comment, ok so it charges with a massive amp rate, in 5 minutes.  do you realize how heavy the buswork and cables are going to be to carry 1ka to your car to charge.  that's a lot of copper and weight.  the price of copper is going to triple over the next year probbly as this quasi pm's war heats up, so yah interesting times

[Grauteufel]

Another spec, cell holds 4.0-4.1v between 5% and 80%