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[TheRan]

I wasn't even expecting anything from Zero at EICMA and I'm still disappointed. Not really all that much to say, £4.5k for 3.72kWh of battery (split over two packs, add a third for 5.58 but no idea what the price will be), around 11hp/8.4kW, 800W charging, apparently space for two helmets under the seat but that won't be full faces (also where the third battery goes), top speed of 62mph with a sustained of 53mph.

https://thepack.news/zero-motorcycles-unveils-the-all-new-ls1-scooter-lompico-concept-and-a-refreshed-model-year-2026/

Also they have a concept bike (I think that's their third now? Nothing came of the others), basically a gen 2 S with 8.8kW/h and 40hp/30kW but gen 3 software and traction control. The standout feature though is apparently charging to 80% in under an hour. Although they do say configurable so perhaps it's a 6kW charge tank and 1.5kW OBC type of deal. Other than that the S and DS get 3.3kW charging and 15.6 batteries (I don't know if these were options on pervious models and just come as standard now, I stopped caring a while ago) and the SR/F gets winglets and a different bellypan.

[Curt]

A scooter?? It may be there is a huge market in big cities of the US and Europe, and more so in Asia. But also, I'd think those markets would already be utterly saturated with hundreds of dirt cheap gas and electric options already.

[Stonewolf]

I saw a report Livewire are making an S2 based superscoot. I don't think it's all that crazy, it's the market BMW opted to open in for the their EVs.

[Specter]

Curt, you have a point, but people are getting tired of hearing on the news every other day about their high quality Chinesium scooters catching fire during a charge event, so may be opting for brands that are known for quality.  plus when the thing does go tits up, you also know there's a shop to fix it at too hopefully.   Im interested, but don't want garbage, now if a known name is making it, i have a feeling of security that it's going to be a 'good' scooter.

Aaron

[Grauteufel]

I sometimes think US based guys don't take into account how small the US is globally in the scale of two-wheel transport. The EU is 1.3 million units a year, I believe india alone is over 17 million units, ASEAN is 8 million, whereas the US is probably going to be less than 500k and almost entire "heavy" motorcycles. If Zero have a product that could get a fraction of a percent of those markets they will do fantastically. I do have to give a little credit to Livewire to trying to get as much as possible out of the S2 platform.

[Specter]

what would you consider heavy motorcycles.
yah, the us is not very big on bike sales, however you also have to remember that about half the country, is frozen over /not very rideable for a good portion of the year.
i think with the world going to shit though, there might be an uptick as people can no longer afford the 50k suv to run around town, and scooters with a few bags / panniers suddenly are 'trendy'.  or they'll go down even more as people just order online.
the cost of insurance and how dangerous places like florida for example have become to ride bikes doesn't help either.  all these zombies staring at their phones 24 / 7 running over bikers doesn't help sales.  i think jacksonville alone has killed 40 already this year and even sadder more times than not its the cartards fault, not zoomie tard doing 80 mph playing pinball thru traffic.  carelessness is tragic, stupidity is darwin at work.

aaron

[Stonewolf]

I do have to give a little credit to Livewire to trying to get as much as possible out of the S2 platform.

I actually think the most interesting thing about Livewire is that as soon as they dropped the bar and shield they became HD's means to expand into segments their brand wouldn't normally allow.

[Grauteufel]

In many parts of the world, a “heavy” motorcycle is a classification. Most of the time is bikes 400cc and above. In other parts that have categories is 47hp and above.

I saw that zero said their S2 based sport bike had fast charging. Was that proper DCFC? The lack of DCFC was the reason I went with energica over zero, and my usage has proven the boon of DCFC. Here they are the most readily available and numerous public chargers.

[Fran K]

I do have to give a little credit to Livewire to trying to get as much as possible out of the S2 platform.

A little credit I will agree as to, as much as possible out of the S2 platform I respectfully disagree.  All 3 choices have the same or essentially the same front fender.  I was talking on the phone to the sales guy, and he agreed Harley Davidson made motorcycles that had substantial front fenders.  This was back when only the Del Mar was available.  Those fins make my knees hurt, figure of speech, just looking at them, no knee pad variant.

Sorry for the derail in a Zero thread.  Is this scooter using the universal battery that one might hope for an aftermarket bunch of other players?  I did look in the text at the link in post 1 and did not read one way or the other.

I was just recalling a number of years back when Zero had the FX line with two seperate battery modules.  I think they were badge named 3.6.  If one used just one and put it in the right spot you would get about the right 48%, 52% weight on the front vs rear wheel.  Same torque just less hp or revs the torque cuts back is much lower.  The advice from folks presumably or identified as such representing Zero was to only use both batteries if you buy them at the same time.  Which seemed strange (but sensible at the same time) for someone buying Makita double battery tools like leaf blower, right hand circular saw, left hand circular saw, and a few other choices that were offered in package deals of 4 batteries and a tool with no such advice.

[Richard230]

How have BMW's two electric scooter been selling lately? While have seen a couple in BMW showrooms in the SF Bay Area shops, I have yet to see one in the wild. But if Zero can sell them for much less than BMW does and not too much more than Chinese electric scooters, then I guess they will find a market in Europe, India and SE Asia, but I doubt I will see any in the U.S. However, if Zero dealers will embrace the new scooter enough to feature one in their showrooms, maybe I will. 

[princec]

Presumably terribly, because they are priced exactly thrice what anyone sane would pay for them.
<edit>178 in the last 4 years, according to https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=BMW+CE-04&commit=Search
Still rather a lot better than Zero have managed with the SR/F...

Cas

[JaimeC]

I actually think the most interesting thing about Livewire is that as soon as they dropped the bar and shield they became HD's means to expand into segments their brand wouldn't normally allow.

Not to hijack the thread but Harley is making the same mistake with Livewire that they did with Buell:  They can ONLY be sold through Harley dealerships and most Harley dealerships don't want to carry them. Shops that specialize in electric mobility can't carry them even if they wanted to.

[TheRan]

Is that just an American thing? Because over here in the UK there are 6 dealers that sell them and none are Harley, some aren't even solely electric bike dealers.

[Stonewolf]

I talked to EEMC about this before Livewire was split off and at the time it was the case that to stock Livewire you had to stock regular HDs too (and some HD dealers were told they were taking Livewires or not getting bikes) but since the split I expect that might have changed because Livewire isn't chasing the same markets and people only go into HD dealers for one thing (the Panamerica).

[Specter]

Harley shot themselves in the foot with that one,  ignorance and arrogance, very familiar with clueless ceo's who value dei bullshit over what really works.

You can't sell OUR bike unless you bow down here,  kiss this ass, smooch over there and buy half a million dollars of stock that isn't selling well, (and it's YOUR problem now how to get rid of it on unsuspecting masses).

common sense would dictate that if I am selling a product, anyone wanting to sell in good faith, let them!  I understand they have to support their dealers and all, and this is a way to drive business there but if you are drowning, you don't ignore a life rope just because it wasn't a friend who threw it to you!.

This is the kind of crap that almost killed off Apple in the very early days, you think corporations would look back thru history for case history, on things that worked and things NOT to do.

Hindsight is always 20/20 unless you have leaders with perpetual amnesia.

aaron