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Author Topic: 2016 dsR  (Read 6611 times)

alexanderfoti

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2016 dsR
« on: October 16, 2025, 02:22:43 AM »

Hi all

I am thinking about a 2016 Zero DSR with approx 25k mikes onit.

I have lots of experience with EVs having built battery pack and lithium conversions and also building my own 35kw+ electric motorbike based on a Fazer 600.

I know some battery types age quicker with time Vs mileage and some types are inverse.

Are the zero packs likely to give issues at relatively low miles at around 9 years old? I appreciate I am unlike to have fantastic range but something like 60-70% health would be acceptable without a major failure requiring a pack rebuild

Advice much appreciated
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Richard230

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2025, 03:30:13 AM »

My daughter's 2014 Zero S is still working great, with no obvious degrading of the bike's battery. It is the same with my 2018 S. Both bikes have "power tanks".
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Richard's motorcycle collection:  2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

ESokoloff

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2025, 06:33:18 AM »

I have no advice to give but will share my experience.

In 2017 I purchased a slightly used (2.8k mile) 2016 DSR.
I have now idea how the original owner treated the battery.
I used the bike for commuting putting on 13~14k miles/year.
My routine was to top the battery off at work (charge to 100%), ride home (not charging) & return to work the next work day & repeat.
Around the 3rd winter I noticed a significant reduction in performance so before the 5 yr warranty was up, I took it to Hollywood Elctric  & they determined the battery warrant replacement (just under 60k miles).
After this I came up with ways to limit battery level between 20~80 as this is now the suggested sweet zone.
The bike now has 95k & fingers crossed.
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Eric
2016 Zero DSR

Specter

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2025, 07:12:53 AM »

The problem with the lithium chemistry is, age will affect them, used or not.  they grow dendrites over time, and if the battery is taken care of properly, they'll grow slowly.

the thing is, industry wide, it's generally accepted that about the 8 to 9 year mark when these batteries will crap out.  They'll grow long enough to eventually short out the cell, then the pack is dead.  It won't be a degrade really, it'll pretty much, the pack now is crap, it's done and itll happen very fast.

The longest warranty you will find typically is 8 years, that's because they know it won't go much longer than that, on average. 

Here's the thing, is your battery a day from death or a year?  no way to tell honestly.  It could last another two maybe 3 years, it could die tomorrow.

In other words, with proper care, you'll get 8 years out of them, any time after that, is a bonus.

For what it's worth, the dendrite growth tends to happen during charge / discharge cycles, so in theory, lower cycled batteries, should be in a bit better shape.

Aaron
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T.S. Zarathustra

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2025, 03:44:11 PM »

The good news is that price of many new NMC battery cells have reached less than 100 USD per kWh for small-ish quantities. Quick search from China gives me 1660 USD for 108 x 32 Ah cells for my 2018 Zero 14.4 kWh battery (that would be plus agents, transport and so on and so forth). The Zero battery packs are potted, which makes things a bit more challenging. Not impossible, just requiring a different approach.

I've also the attached photo that shows cheaper cells that are larger capacity (58 Ah) and dimensions than Zero uses. Same height and length but 10mm thick instead of 6 mm. This gives opportunity to use fewer cells, but will not be a direct fit. 820 USD for 13 kWh pack using 56 of the bigger cells. This would fit in current space, with some to spare, and will function with the current BMS. I would probably go this route myself. Maybe even use 84 cells at 1230 USD for nearly 20 kWh battery. But where to fit them without a bag of holding?  :D

For the life of your cells. Calendar aging is an issue. There are chemical changes that happen. If used, stored and charged properly the changes seem to happen slowly and the batteries seem to last for long time. The dendrite that Aaron mentioned grow much slower on batteries that are charged slowly. Faster charging increases lithium plating on the anode, which is the root cause of dendrite growth in all lithium-ion batteries. This is one of the reasons charge rate is usually limited to 1C. The slow charge of Zero is a blessing in disguise regarding that.
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alexanderfoti

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2025, 04:52:46 PM »

Thanks all for the valuable feedback.

Its cheap enough that I have pulled the trigger. I Will pull the BMS logs from it and parse the results to see what the BMS things capacity is VS rated, but as above, it appears it will just drop off a cliff in a short period of time.

can the BMS logs be obtained from the Zero App along with the MBB logs, or is this only available via serial console access to the BMS?

I would imagine a bike with low miles like this has probably not been fast charged, but sat around at various power levels for long periods of time, but you never know.

I think the idea of building another pack would not be too out there, especially as those cell prices really are not bad.
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Curt

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2025, 12:15:11 AM »

My 2016 FX batteries have degraded and I'm curious to see if yours does the same. After charging to 100%, it's falls to 50% in about 5 miles. I figure that's due to voltage droop in a fatigued battery. But then it levels off and will continue on to 30-40 miles at surface street speeds. It also "magic charges" when turned off. I never stored it flat, although a few times I rode it down to 0% then charged it immediately. I tried to keep it around 60-70% when parked for extended periods.
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alexanderfoti

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2025, 01:35:18 AM »

What is the pack size on your FX? 7?
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Curt

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2025, 05:34:38 AM »

What is the pack size on your FX? 7?

6.5 (actually 2 x 3.3 modular). I blame my commuting at 50 MPH for contributing to wear, as that results in fast discharging and frequent charge cycles.
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Specter

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2025, 09:08:45 AM »

one thing to keep in mind.  The battery is potted, probably to keep it intact.  unpotted, thats a lot of loose cells bumping / banging / jiggling around stretching and twisting connections, just asking for a break, weak junction to heat up and cause problems.

if you do go playing do it yourself, while you may not have to pot it, id seriously consider some sort of wrap or restraint to keep them from moving around too much, hitting bumps and pot holes, those jars can really stress welds and such.

Even a wrap or two of reinforced 100mph tape would help.  It may hinder cooling a tad, but so does being in a box.

Aaron
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alexanderfoti

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2025, 11:09:47 PM »

Bike has arrived and I'm very happy with it overall.

I attempted to download both logs through the Zero app but it counted past 100% to 713% then the instrument cluster started flashing and it stopped.

Any ideas on how to obtain what capacity the BMS thinks the pack is Vs design capacity?

Zero spy shows pack capacity but that's current capacity (charge level)
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TheRan

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2025, 12:48:08 AM »

The log transfer never actually works the way it's supposed to. Once it gets to 100% it's done and you can quit out of the app, then the logs will be saved on your phone. You can plug it into a computer and browse to the file (sorry I don't know the exact location as it's been a while) and then upload that to a log parser which will make it readable.
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alexanderfoti

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Re: 2016 dsR
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2025, 05:48:24 PM »

Thanks, I will have a look and dig them out
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