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[JaimeC]

If anybody REALLY looked at what they were promising to deliver WHEN they promised it and knew anything at all about the state of technology at the time they should've known they were selling unicorn hooves and fairy dust.
https://www.visordown.com/news/dark-times-damon-lawsuits-mount-and-workforce-shrinks

[Starpower]

I was refunded my $100 deposit about a year ago.

[Specter]

Maybe im being dense again but.
ok i have 1000 on order.
let me build 10, fufill those orders, with that money, i can pay my people who built them, and now have money to get parts to build 12 more.  lets build  12 more,fufill then i can do 15, lets do 15, now i can do 20 and hire a new guy to help, now i can do 30, now i can do 50 etc and walk your way up.   nobody starts at 200 percent capacity and instantly pumping out tons of product.  If you were truly serious you'd be doing what you could to at least begin pumping them out.  your determination would lead the company to success through hard work, or am i being old fashioned again?

I mean look at Energica, they got shredded, but even through that, the small what was left team, basically worked out of a garage, to keep the team and the dream alive. doing what little they were able to, with what little was given to them, to keep bikes going.  They made it happen.

just seems to me that if Damon really wanted bikes, there'd be bikes, not just a growing mountain of excuses.

Aaron

[Richard230]

Maybe im being dense again but.
ok i have 1000 on order.
let me build 10, fufill those orders, with that money, i can pay my people who built them, and now have money to get parts to build 12 more.  lets build  12 more,fufill then i can do 15, lets do 15, now i can do 20 and hire a new guy to help, now i can do 30, now i can do 50 etc and walk your way up.   nobody starts at 200 percent capacity and instantly pumping out tons of product.  If you were truly serious you'd be doing what you could to at least begin pumping them out.  your determination would lead the company to success through hard work, or am i being old fashioned again?

I mean look at Energica, they got shredded, but even through that, the small what was left team, basically worked out of a garage, to keep the team and the dream alive. doing what little they were able to, with what little was given to them, to keep bikes going.  They made it happen.

just seems to me that if Damon really wanted bikes, there'd be bikes, not just a growing mountain of excuses.

Aaron

Are you saying that it was a Ponzi scheme? 

[MVetter]

[Specter]

no what i am saying is start small work your way up.
you have orders, build what you can, use the money from those to continue to build.  no company has the capital to start out selling 10k  vehicles, they make that capital by selling a few vehicles, eventually being big enough to sell many vehicles...

a ponzi scheme has no income except new investors,   this is supposed to be a company with a viable product.

aaron

[JaimeC]

More from RideApart:
https://www.rideapart.com/news/774378/damon-motors-ev-motorcycles-jay-giraud-lawsuit/

[Richard230]

More from RideApart:
https://www.rideapart.com/news/774378/damon-motors-ev-motorcycles-jay-giraud-lawsuit/

What a mess!  I knew something was rotten at Damon based upon the wild claims for their bikes.  A lot of those claims seemed too technically fantastic to me, especially for a production bike that would cost anything approaching what any consumer would pay. 

The whole thing sounds familiar, like a lot of other startups that were trying to sell amazing technology, perhaps to attract investor cash, and then melted down when the founders starting fighting each other and lost interest in actually marketing anything.   

[MVetter]

hahahahahahahhahahahhHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH


deep breath


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Jay was such an arrogant shit and I'm so happy I called him out at every opportunity. Here's one of many.

[Specter]

Just to be fair, throw him a bone Morgan.  with cylindrical cells, he has pathways for the cooling fluids to flow thru to keep the cells cool.  With that incredible density it's gonna make some heat.   I hear they have some patented super secret Snubbed Founder Tear formula they are working on for the coolant.

Aaron

[flynnstig82r]

People who got swept into the hype didn’t understand how hard it is to design and build a high performance motorcycle. As soon as I saw that people with no serious manufacturing or racing experience were claiming to leapfrog Energica, who had been on the leading edge of e-moto performance for a decade and had accumulated a ton of institutional knowledge, I knew it was a scam. Even garage-built hypercars typically have a ton of pedigree from designers and engineers who were tired of the corporate shackles and wanted to do their own thing. It’s never just a bunch of shady tech and finance bros leapfrogging the whole industry on their first try. Even Tesla spent years and years poaching Lotus employees to build their early knowledge base.

[MVetter]

You have to remember that in their earliest days all they were trying to offer was the SHIFT technology and the safety sensors. That is to say the adjustable pegs and bars and then the cameras with corresponding warning LEDs that were designed to alert the rider to threats. They showcased in on a rolling Zero chassis and basically claimed that this would be the bike of the future. I do not think, at that time, they had any intentions of trying to design an actual electric motorcycle. But, and this is just what I *think* happened, someone offered them a Big Bag of Money and said, "do it!"

And they looked hungrily at the Big Bag of Money and then took the Big Bag of Money and spent the next few years being both arrogant and completely overwhelmed until the Big Bag of Money ran out.

edit- and probably also hookers and blow

[Specter]

the hookers probably took that big bag of money, for their blow.  which i heard really pissed off the owner who was a blowhard.

aaron

[NEW2elec]

God it's a slow rainy day or I wouldn't bother.

Stig it's hard to make a race winning bike but all Damon's bike had to beat was the Ego.  A bike that at first had a range of maybe 60 miles.
It could hit about 150ish with a long enough road but it was laughably over weight at over 600lbs.
Damon's tested 6 phase bike motor was 248hp with bench power limited to 200hp from the battery pack.  Still 50hp more than the Ego's 150hp.
It went over 200mph on the dyno which isn't pushing air so much easier, but still pretty damn fast.

Guys are making 88mph Surrons and Stark hit the ground with the most powerful (stock) dirt bike in the world.  While KTM put out the Freeride which is like a kids toy.  Electric is just a whole new game.

Also Derik was from Alta which was beating some gas bikes in certain types of races so not some backyard dumb ass.

Morgan is almost half right in his post. 
Jay bought Skully, the tech heavy safety helmet that failed.  He figured out there was way too much tech needed to fit in a helmet and figured to spread out the sensors and cpu into the bike itself.

What better to power it than an electric bike.  Thus the Hypersport was born.
So it needs to be more powerful and lighter than Zero and Energica.  It needs a battery cell type that's more proven than pouch cells.  At the time 2170s were in the best auto EVs so they went with that.
Enclose all the parts in a sealed case so no salt and water gets in.  Oil cool the motor, but also liquid cool the battery and controller by using the battery case as a heat sink and cooling channels.  Newer Energicas that added kwhs but lost the center cooling channel can't ride and fast charge without overheating.  You see how you just need to pay attention and not make the same mistakes as the other guys and you take the lead.

Now I think they were going to have the controller serve as the AC charger thus getting a 6.8kw level 2 result, beating the Ego's 3kw and having a high enough voltage for CCS charging beating Zero. And of course saving weight with one unit.

The Shift modes came as a last minute add on, thinking older riders might balk at the sport bike riding position.

All anyone has to do is look at the electric Ducati's encased drive unit and see it's damn near the same design as Damon's

There was an Ex Quantumscape exec on Damon's board early on and I was hoping he would be able to get the early solid state cells for Damon but VW has first rights so Ducati gets them.

[MVetter]

There's not enough beer in the world for that pile of gibberish to make any kind of sense. What you have to remember is that NEW2elec is savagely INSANE. Here's one of many quotes from him that demonstrate his delightful perspective on reality:

This is a person who lives in a delusional world and probably needs to be treated with special needs because they can't understand the environment around them.