Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Stonewolf]

It's not just weight it's volume, going back to my point in another thread you're working within a restrictive form factor and you've gotta make your battery physically larger to fit the cooling architecture inside it. Also it'd need to be a heat pump so that you can concentrate all the low temperature distributed heat energy into a much higher temperature fluid in your radiator because if it's only a few degrees C above ambient your cooling efficiency will be awful and you can't compensate with a giant radiator. Worse with batteries in hot climates it's entirely possible for the battery to be below ambient in which case your simple liquid cooling loop is actually a low power heating loop! You also can't get away without a fan because a lot of your cooling need is going to be when stationary.

[Stonewolf]

Nah, way less than that - look at the amount of metal that's involved in all the cooling fins on the Zero battery pack and motor.

Cas

Zero's are passive cooled though just like the old Energicas. We're talking about an active thermal system like you find on basicly every non-Leaf electric car from the Model S onwards.

[princec]

That's what I mean - the weight of passive cooling is not insignificant either. And volume. Anyway it all looks to be solvable and bit by bit it is happening.

Cas

[Specter]

 in the case of the Energica's that passive cooling is also protection for the battery.  That is why they are able to handle awful abuse, like my crash earlier and not burst into flames, because the battery pack is built like a tank.  they really can't take too much of that protection (which also happens to be part of the cooling system) away can they?

aaron

[TheRan]

The WN7 does actually look to have a cooling radiator just above the front wheel, with the air going through it passing above the battery pack and possibly over the charger. I'm going to assume the radiator is primarily for the motor, it doesn't look to be exposed and covered in fins like on a Zero although the bodywork on the sides behind the battery may channel air to it. It could also provide some active cooling to the charger by also turning the fans on while charging, if that's not also liquid cooled.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

Motor is liquid cooled.
Battery will charge from 20-80% in 30 minutes. So at 6 kW I'm guessing the battery to be about 10-11 kWh.
18 kW power is supposed to equal 600 cc engine.
The bike specs are nothing special. Price is high, weight is high, range is low, power is low, it's been hit repeatedly with the ugly stick.
What is special is that it's the first proper production electric bike from manufacturer with thousands of dealers worldwide (ignoring HD LiveWire ). And the design seems quite good. I'd buy one if I could sell my Zero at a good price.

[princec]

That's a big "if" but I am fairly certain our Zeros are practically worthless. Which sort of plays into our hands because a 1yr old WN7 will also depreciate like a lead balloon - I expect them to be approximately half of RRP by 2026 on the 2nd hand market, which to those in the know, would make an excellent deal.

Cas

[TheRan]

The 20-80% in 30 minutes is on DC, it's under 3 hours 0-100% at 6kW. So if we assume an average closer to 5.5kW and a time of say 2 hours 45 minutes then that's a smidge over 15kWh. It's lighter, cheaper, and faster charging than a Zero of comparable capacity, for a first attempt at a serious electric bike from Honda I'd say they're doing pretty damn good, much better than Kawasaki.

[princec]

Yes, Kawasaki's attempts have been fairly laughable. Interesting that Yamaha haven't stepped up yet, they're famous for tech innovation.

I think I might be getting one of these WN7s when I've extracted all I can from the Zero.

Cas

[JaimeC]

Yes, Kawasaki's attempts have been fairly laughable. Interesting that Yamaha haven't stepped up yet, they're famous for tech innovation.

I think I might be getting one of these WN7s when I've extracted all I can from the Zero.

Cas

NEVER buy the first production model of something brand new unless you enjoy being an unpaid tester for the factory.

[Fran K]

Yes, Kawasaki's attempts have been fairly laughable. Interesting that Yamaha haven't stepped up yet, they're famous for tech innovation.

I think I might be getting one of these WN7s when I've extracted all I can from the Zero.

Cas

Yamaha has been producing a trials motorcycle for must be 5 years by now.  I think they come in second in the few rounds of top level competition that offer an electric class.  It seems they make motors.

As to this Honda,  I see one pinch bolt on the top fork mount so that probably indicates how severe service it is intended for.  Say they start producing it in 2026 moto journalists and Europeans will likely get them before the general public here.

[Richard230]

I wonder what the cost of the WN7 will be in the U.S. after it gets hit by our tariffs, if it is even marketed here? And will Honda dealers really want to sell the bikes after hearing from other dealers that have been selling Zeros, LiveWires, Energica's and other short-lived electric motorcycles (like the ones listed on this forum which are no longer with us) over the years? 

[Specter]

last i checked Energica, livewire and zero are still around, selling bikes.
Energica got shagged, but cleaned up the mess done to them and are back working towards becoming main stream again.

Energica's failure was not because of it's product, it was because of scammers.  They divested themselves from the cancer and now are coming back to sell a product that was doing fairly well.  Hopefully they do a bit more advertising to get the name out there better this time.

aaron

[Richard230]

I was thinking of how U.S. dealers feel about selling electric motorcycles. From what I hear, most think they don't make them enough money to be worth the effort selling them. Not enough volume and it is hard to find technicians to work on them.

My daughter just made an appointment to service her KTM 390 Duke with a local KTM motorcycle dealer in Northern California. When making the appointment she was told that they only had one mechanic left working in the shop and it would take them a month to fit her into their schedule. She was also told that they were no longer performing any service work on Saturdays, Sundays or Mondays. So times appear to be tough for motorcycle shops this year and I think many shops are backing off on taking any financial risks right now.

One comment that hasn't been mentioned about the WN7 is that it doesn't seem to be designed to accommodate any useful luggage. That little seat pack that was shown sure looks like an after-thought.

[Richard230]

An article in my newspaper today, written by Jack Ewing and published by the New York Times discusses the fast depreciation of electric cars and how good of a buy they are right now as used vehicles. An extreme example at the beginning of the article describes an 80-year-old woman living in San Francisco, who recently bought a 2013 Leaf for only $1,000, after factoring in a rebate from her utility company (PG&E, I assume).

One advantage to electric motorcycles that I can never recall being mentioned in manufacturer promotional videos, or even video reviews like Motobob's, is the lack of maintenance needed by electric motorcycles. Anyone who has bought an ICE motorcycle in for servicing at a dealership (like, heaven forbid, a franchised BMW dealership), or even an independent shop, should appreciate the reduction in expensive maintenance cost. As an example, my daughter's 2000 KTM 390 Duke's 600-mile servicing cost $650!

The 2014 Zero S that my daughter also owns, has only been to a shop for servicing once. And that was just a couple of months after it was purchased to replace a defective Power Tank. Since then it has never needed any servicing, other than tire replacement and brake fluid changes. And it still runs as well as new, with no obvious decrease in battery performance or range.