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[princec]

Commented on the vid, but my thoughts here are:
1. Quality looks to be way better than a Zero. Looks great too IMHO.
2. Price similar to a Zero S, £13k
3. 67bhp peak, 18kW continuous output, same as a Zero S more or less
4. CCS charging!
5. 6kW AC charging
6. Proper belt drive
7. Battery capacity unknown - claimed range ~80 miles, which would lead me to suspect a 6kWh battery or thereabouts, which would suck; or they're being really conservative and that's highway miles, which could mean 12+kWh. The devil is in the detail but personally I'm not buying anything with a lower range than my current Zero.

Cas

[MVetter]

If it has a 6kW AC charger and Honda said it will recharge at home in ~3 hours that's telling me definitely double digit kWh capacity. I'm going to optimistically hazard a guess of 15kWh and they're being conservative listing highway range. I know, I know, me being optimistic must mean we're in End Times but let's throw caution to the wind.

[Specter]

So that silver colored holder for the battery.  make it swing down and out, maybe a bolt or something to hold it up on the opposite end.  point being, pop a new battery in / out in say 5 minutes or so.  make the batteries swappable.  i run that one dry, pull in, swap in 5, got another 80 miles while the old one charges, or again, battery swap program, as i go station to station on my trip, whatever just swap from pool of batteries.

range anxiety solved.  like putting batteries in a flashlight... almost

aaron

[TheRan]

At over 200kg I'd imagine it's 15kWh or more, so for a few hundred quid more than a 7.2 FXE with more power and much faster charging (both AC and DC) as well as most like better build quality I'd say it's an absolute bargain. As an addendum to Cas's post a Zero S is actually £2.5k more expensive for 14.4kWh, slower charging (DC is half the speed and of course no AC), 5kg heavier, and 7hp less.

[princec]

tbh it blows the competition into the weeds in bang-for-buck. Only gripe would be price vs ICE equivalents, still, but it makes all its competitors look expensive and second-rate.

Cas

[Fran K]

"6. Proper belt drive"

What do you mean by this?  Sensibly large enough diameter front sprocket and sensible wide enough belt?

[flynnstig82r]

I don’t hate it. It’s not in Energica territory in either capability or price, but it’s always a treat to see another CCS-capable bike. With fast charging, hopefully 15+ kwh and the Honda badge, it might actually have a chance.

It’s tiptoeing around repeating Livewire’s mistake of trying to compete in the middleweight category, though, which is the toughest nut for electrics to crack, and I think it will be 15-20 years before an electric 650cc equivalent can compete on both range and price with ICE bikes. I also feel like any road bike that’s intended to leave city limits should have at least 90 miles of highway range at Interstate speeds of 75 MPH, preferably 100+. Otherwise you’re courting a very small and fickle audience of multi-bike owners who don’t mind the range limitations but also don’t already have a premium electric motorbike. There’s a reason the Energica Experia had a full order book and the offerings from Zero and Livewire didn’t, IMO, and it was the 130 mile highway range. 80 miles is pretty good, especially when combined with a fast CCS charger, but I still think it’s going to scare away a lot of potential buyers.

As an electric upgrade path, it might tempt some Zero owners, but probably only the S-platform owners, as I have trouble imaging a lot of SR/F and SR/S owners giving up all that torque and acceleration. I can’t imagine any Energica owners making the trade. Owners of Surrons, Super Socos, and similar brands, though, might find it very tempting, and might be attracted to the Honda name. So might Stark Varg owners who fell in love with electric and now want a highway-capable electric road bike.

I give a 50/50 chance of selling well. If it doesn’t, and dealers become desperate to get rid of them, it could make for some good bargains to be had in a couple years.

[DonTom]

7. Battery capacity unknown - claimed range ~80 miles

They did give a good clue. In fact, I wish they would never even mention range or charge times. I only want to know the charging KW and the battery usable KWH. I can figure it out from there close enough.

It says it takes 3 hours to charge to full with a 6 KW charger.

That will be 3hrs  times 6KW=18KWH (or somewhat close to that for the battery size). I find 7 miles (11KM) per KWH usually works well for an average motorcycle ride.


18 KWH times 7=126 miles. That is the range I would expect for average condition riding at various speeds.

[princec]

I don't believe it to be anywhere near 18kWh, it's far too small. I suspect it'll be around 11 or 12 usable The 3 hour charge time supposes that it slurps 6kW for the entire 3 hours duration and we know that's not what happens.

As an SR/F owner I'm very tempted by the Honda. The SR/F is outrageously fast, but I have to acknowledge that 95% of my miles are done in Street mode with similar power and torque characteristics and that's actually easily fast enough. The main reason I would have to sidegrade is legendary Honda build quality and backup. Zeros don't feel in any way premium at all. Mine just rusts constantly, the plastics are sharp and vaguely fitted, the switchgear just about as cheap as it is possible to buy, etc. I love it to bits (I will indeed love it till it falls to pieces - it is virtually worthless second hand so I may as well) but my next bike will only be a Zero if they massively move their game on in at least one area: either quality (to reach the bar set by other £17000 motorcycles), charging speed (doubled, please), battery capacity (+50%, please), or reduced price (compete with the Honda, please)

Cas

[JaimeC]

A half hour to charge from 20 to 80 on CCS??  Are you kidding me??  That's not much longer than it takes to charge up my Zero with it's 14.4kWh battery and a Level2 AC charger!  That should be a LOT faster!!

[princec]

The battery just won't be big enough to take that sort of boost and stay reliable for the lifetime of the bike. That looks to me like a nice conservative peak charging rate of 1C with 20kW.

Cas

[Specter]

A half hour to charge from 20 to 80 on CCS??  Are you kidding me??  That's not much longer than it takes to charge up my Zero with it's 14.4kWh battery and a Level2 AC charger!  That should be a LOT faster!!

You don't understand battery charging,  smaller does not necessarily mean it will charge faster.  You can only reliably charge them at certain C rates.  If it's smaller that does not mean it fills up quicker, that means you have to pour the power back into them slower.  Until the technology changes that allows them to charge at faster rates without the detriment, your charge time is going to essentially remain the same.

As for AC charging, in essence the charger is what limits you.  DC chargers, most commercial ones, a motorcycle is no way going to push them to capacity

Aaron

[Stonewolf]

Charge times are basicly gonna stay in the 20-30 minutes range until either chemistry changes or someone figures out how to package both high capacity and active thermal management and likely the latter will require the former.

[Specter]

Curious, i wonder how much weight liquid cooling would add.  you'd need the baffle plates, radiator, fluid, reservoir, pump, tubing, plus the extra maintenance of fluid level and purity checking. But thinking that might add another what 40 lbs to the bike?  it'd have to be it's own system really because motors running at 150 degrees and stuff no problem, batteries. umm no.  when it's a hot ass day in florida, and the asphalt temp is pushing 130 degrees, you are going to be challenged getting enough air exchange to get that to effectively cool anymore.

aaron

[princec]

Nah, way less than that - look at the amount of metal that's involved in all the cooling fins on the Zero battery pack and motor.

Cas