Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JaimeC]

but if there was a horse power limitation, they'd have to do it for that bike right?
you said modified,  that's no longer a 'production' bike then, it's custom.    you could just call it a modified ego, we just changed the handle bars a bit and added fairings, if you want to go that route.

if you listen to lightning's 'story'  his bike's been in profucktion for several years, but thankfully, it's too powerful, it scares all the racers so you'll never see it in that event.  so the whole 'production' thing is a bit wiggly if they need it to be.

Modifying power output is nothing new in a production racing series.  In World Superbike, for example, they do it with intake restrictions or rpm limits.  It's only in prototype racing (like MotoGP) where the only limit is engine displacement and number of cylinders.  Everything else in the engine department is wide open.

Dialing back the power of an electric bike is just a couple of lines of code in the software by comparison.

[CagivaRider]

Just a quick reminder of what I wrote earlier from the MotoAmerica rulebook:
f. Manufacturers seeking approval for bikes which do not meet specified requirements are required to obtain a pre-approval form from the MotoAmerica/AMA Permanent Bureau.

In other words - it doesn't have to be a production model, just be approved for competition.

[JaimeC]

Just a quick reminder of what I wrote earlier from the MotoAmerica rulebook:
f. Manufacturers seeking approval for bikes which do not meet specified requirements are required to obtain a pre-approval form from the MotoAmerica/AMA Permanent Bureau.

In other words - it doesn't have to be a production model, just be approved for competition.

And as a friend of mine pointed out:  "Money Talks..."

[MVetter]

... your theory is that Brian "Moneybags" Wissman and his independent race team bribed Roland Sands to subvert the rules to let him enter the illustrious and coveted Super Hooligans division with a bike that wouldn't normally qualify? Just want to confirm that's what you're saying before I react further.

[CagivaRider]

To quell a potential firestorm ... MotoAmerica probably thinks adding an electric motorcycle will draw more attention to the class, hence more revenue. Who would have thought a bunch of Harley/Indian baggers would be so popular they are now competing in selected MotoGP races.

[MVetter]

noooo i want a fight

[Fran K]

Just a quick reminder of what I wrote earlier from the MotoAmerica rulebook:
f. Manufacturers seeking approval for bikes which do not meet specified requirements are required to obtain a pre-approval form from the MotoAmerica/AMA Permanent Bureau.

In other words - it doesn't have to be a production model, just be approved for competition.

Is there a protest period from when the results are posted and when the trophies are handed out?  Like if the bike that got pre-approval wins or places high enough to get points toward the series banquet awards, should a protetst be lodged, some competition committee at a later date votes on the protest after hearing both sides?

[JaimeC]

noooo i want a fight

Yes, I've heard that about you.

[MVetter]

Yes, I've heard that about you.

Please share!

[Specter]

Good question Fran.

in the event they did place podium I can see a whole bunch of potential drama unveil as the butthurt flows trying to make it up there from the lower down nestlings.

in all honesty, it shouldn't make any difference, if the bike was allowed to race, they should have bitched at the very beginning, not just after they lost, but putting up the 50 bucks to cry well..... why waste that if you were not close to begin with.

Aaron

[CagivaRider]

The Hooligan class is regulated to keep the competition close. Part of that is they adjust things like horsepower and weight after most races. There wouldn't be a protest most likely. It's pretty common in the regulated classes for recently approved bikes to be performance tweaked.

[Demoni]

I'm super excited to see what Josh Herrin can do piloting the Lightfighter SH bike. We (Energica) were granted special permission to race the EVA in the class regardless of the production bike HP output. The main argument was that the power to weight ratio of the EVA was in the same range of the ICE bikes racing in the class. In addition due to heat limitations of the battery the actual hp of the race bike was less than that of a production model.

Lightfighter takes a different approach vs Energica, using a smaller battery pack to reduce total bike weight should result in the bike requiring less energy needed for similar power output. It also looks like they are using a actively cooled battery pack to control cell temps.

MotoAmerica has done a great job adjusting the rules where needed to provide a even playing field for the SH class. For the 2026 season they have worked hard to curtail the "arms race" big budget factory teams were taking advantage of. They did this by introducing rule changes that limit the cost of components like suspension and brakes. In addition they have adjusted the minimum weights and in some cases require teams to run additional ballast weight. They are quick to tweak the rules to ensure the class stays competitive and keeps some spirit of what Roland Sands envisioned; an accessible race series. 

Anyone who watched the Hooligan races with Stefano on the Energica know that, in an ideal world, the track is 8 laps with a warmup lap. The Energica bikes were able to do that. However, many times there things like crashes or things that prompted a mid-race pause, reset, and another warmup lap.

Red flags were a huge challenge for us. The EVA race bike was tuned to go the race distance at full power. In the event of a red flag the current lap was neutralized and all bikes returned to the pit till the track could be made safe, riders then had to exit the pits and reform on the starting grid after an additional sighting lap. This resulted in an additional 2 laps of energy used and heat created. Charging the bike in the pit was a balance between providing enough energy to go 2 extra laps but not generating too much heat in the battery resulting in thermal cutbacks.

Is there a protest period from when the results are posted and when the trophies are handed out?

After every qualifying session and race all bike go into parc ferme, which is a cordoned off area for a period of around 30 minutes. Each team can inspect competitors bikes (visually), if they see something they feel is in breach of the rules they can lodge (by paying a fee) an official protest. In that event MotoAmerica staff will inspect the bike and determine if a rule has been broken, an bike that is determined to be in breech of the rules is disqualified. We were disqualified from our 8th place finish in 2024 at The Ridge due to us having additional sensors fitted to the bike (to monitor suspension travel), we failed to remove them after testing. In addition both Indians were DQ in race 2 after finishing 1st and 2nd due to their handle bars being lower than their upper triple tree.

Some teams are granted exceptions to specific rules, for example the production hp of our bike. These exceptions are provided in writing by MotoAmerica.

It's not like they ran the prototype MotoE bikes that they used in Europe.

[JaimeC]

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. I wish they ran the SH class in New Jersey so I could watch.  AHRMA used to have an "electric" class and it was fun watching the modified production bikes competing against the one-off University engineering projects.  It's a real shame they don't do that any more.

[Fran K]

"They are quick to tweak the rules to ensure the class stays competitive"

Who is the they and how does that fit into the AMA framework?

In Netra new England trail rider association there is a competition committee each club that promotes competitive events gets a couple of choices to be on it and then more are voted at large at the annual meeting or perhaps from the population attending the competition committee meeting.  Any member can submit rule changes in writing once a year and the competition committee has a yearly meeting to decide yes or no and deal with any protests from the last year.  Pretty sure it was this way when NETRA made their events AMA, not the case now.

AMA dues went from 29 to 39 quite a few years ago because they committed to a racetrack and never did the race and had to pay damages.  Not everyone is really fond of the road racing arm so to speak.

[JaimeC]

Is that before or after AMA sold the rights to professional racing to DMG?  Or are you talking about an amateur event (which is still controlled by the AMA)?  DMG no longer owns road racing either; they just do flat track and motocross now. Road Racing was sold to the KRAVE Group (Wayne Rainey and folks) who runs MotoAmerica.