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[Specter]

yah thats a bit rough,  the problem with cash as mentioned, is people will prey on the station, vandalize it, try to steal the money every way imaginable, and the thing probably will be broke more times than not.

doesn't the company that owns where you charge often offer you the ability to pre pay?  That is one thing i think plug share is trying to work on is, you put money on your ps account and when you show up... wherever... it pays them and lets you charge.  that might be a viable work around.  another option might be pre paid credit cards,  get the refillable type that way they don't rape you as hard when refilling or a debit card.

most people don't like cash, because once a week or so, they gotta send someone out there to collect the money out of the thing, that's time and money spent, ie less profit on an already stupid thin profit margin market.f

aaron

[NEW2elec]

You can always tell when Morgan gets it wrong.  He's a gas lighter and tries to talk about anything other than what was posted.

Of course when others are off in damn left field talking about how people pay for shit other than the fact that new battery tech could put an end to EV's current death march, I guess it fits right in.

[MVetter]

Please show me the times when I've been wrong and, while you're at it, can you explain your violent tendency to soil yourself? Like, what's that about?

[Fran K]

Here is another video youtube suggested for me.



They say it is a good fit for high performance super sport motorcycle which is the market Ducati represents.  I noticed the grip has wires tying it tight to the throtle tube.  The steering stem does not bolt to the battery/engine like some other bikes.

[Specter]

Fran , looks more of just concept, not that it's actually been built and working.  pure lithium is much more reactive than the current chemistries out there now, and can be an issue in an accident.  They also said if you listen, we still have the hurdles of building the thing, scaling it so it will fit in a bike, and some other issues.  I don't know if they actually have a working bike yet really that has the components at size needed.

Tell you what though, if Ducatti does come out with an E bike id love to test one, or even better romp side by side with it on my ego to compare the two and have some fun.

from what they do show, the seat looks pretty wide on that thing, id think that might make it a bit of an issue moving around on track, having to get up and over that thing back and forth.

wonder what it would end up wighing and some of the other stats.

Aaron

[flynnstig82r]

I think we’d all love to see a massive leap forward from solid state batteries, but it was “3 to 5 years away” 10 years ago and it still is now. It’s good that solid state cells are at least making their way into concept vehicles and small, premium mobile devices, but it’s not a guarantee that they will ever replace traditional Li-ion cells for EVs. When you look at the graveyard of Next Big Things, enthusiasts always assumed that engineering problems would be solved and financial or scaling problems would be overcome against the moving target of the dominant technology, which continues to improve every year.

Dominant battery tech for EVs has only changed once in over a hundred years, twice if you count the brief reign of NiMH. Solid state, sodium, zinc air, etc. were all supposed to be the Next Big Thing, and they either fizzled out or proved themselves to be better at certain things, worse at others. Li-ion may not be improving by leaps and bounds every year anymore, but it’s still getting cheaper and denser, and it’s going to be hard for any replacement technology to offer better energy density for less money while being just as safe.

Fantastical claims have to be taken into context. It’s easy to brag about short recharge times when you’re not offering a warranty to the public. Today’s li-ion cells could probably handle similar amperages, just not for a public product that has to meet its guaranteed performance for years under a variety of conditions.

[princec]

Existing lithium tech is adequate for at least another decade. There are already cells at 500Wh/kg density in production, roughly double what we have now, and that gets us to bikes of Zero's size and weight with 30kWh batteries, and that, to my mind, is all we need for a viable ICE replacement for all general motorcycle uses on and off road, covering everything from touring to commuting to whatever it is GSes are supposed to be for. Exotic applications like race bikes could go with solid state sooner but tbh nobody much cares about MotoGP racing in the grand scheme of things (which we know, because it's been axed).

Cas

[Stonewolf]

You're looking at the wrong number. Volumetric energy density is increasing slower than gravimetric energy density because making cars physically larger is something we as a society have decided is just fine actually but this is a problem for motorbikes which have much more restrictive form factors.

[princec]

I think those 500Wh/kg cells I referred to are the same size as current 250Wh/kg cells which was what was most interesting to me.

https://amprius.com/about/news-and-events/the-all-new-amprius-500-wh-kg-battery-platform-is-here/#:~:text=The%20record%20500%20Wh%2Fkg,l%20at%2025%C2%B0C.

Cas

[Specter]

So, how about some specs?

what C rate?  how many cycles?  what's it's dielectric strength? can it work on a bigger form factor, what they shown you was a smaller application, maybe a few ah, what about something bigger to put into a car?  how do they perform in adverse environments.

You have to look often at what they are not telling you, as much as the one or two powder puff items they are telling you.

I'll believe it when i see it actually running in cars, not just 'well one day we hope to......'

aaron

what id like to know is why they are not recycling much more of the lith today?  they cry about how expensive the ore is bla bla, but you throw away tens of thousands of tons of old batteries every year?  can't reuse that?

[princec]

Apparently the mixture of stuff in lithium batteries is tricky to disassemble into a state where it's easy to get at the expensive stuff. By "tricky" I mean "more expensive than just making more lithium currently". Probably a solvable or even already solved problem but not yet deployed at scale.

Cas

[Fran K]

I had a 350 Sebring for a while years ago when the 450 desmo was the "sport" model.  Things are way different now.  I think Ducati got all motorcycles kicked out of the pikes peak timed trial.

I believe the CEO that got the Volkswagen/Audi group to buy Ducati is the one that was adamant to market diesel automobiles that did not use DEF to the point of figuring out how to make them pass tests but not really conplying.  Exactly how Ducati is going to be used going forward is something to watch.

[ESokoloff]

………

aaron

what id like to know is why they are not recycling much more of the lith today?  they cry about how expensive the ore is bla bla, but you throw away tens of thousands of tons of old batteries every year?  can't reuse that?

Battery recycling is in it’s infancy but it is a thing.

This is a long watch but you might find this video interesting

https://youtu.be/k30syplvCi0?si=x2z1dpYxbuU7e2pd

[Specter]

ive been recycling lipo's for years.  it's a little time consuming, but actually profitable, especially at the prices of nickle, cobalt etc today.  Never really looked for a buyer for my lithium but got a bunch of it.  kind of fun to play with but anyways.

someone is not making enough profit off it, they haven't figured how to rape the govt for a big fat juicy grant / subsidy yet on it.  Then again the beancounters sometimes are fucking ignorant beyond capacity too.  the don't understand real world, they look at a number in a book and think that is golden.  I'll give you an example. 
We have CFB boilers in the power plant, we have thermocouples we shove up through the bottom of the bed to monitor the temp.  We order them ready to go.  Our accountants, decided to instead order the ones that were not assembled, but instead order the plug head and we could put them together ourselves, why?  because it was 5 dollars cheaper per element, so times the 32 elements they saved 160 dollars... ooh give that man a cupie doll.  Ok, you stupid fuck piece of shit, it takes me roughly 30 minutes to get the thing assembled, THEN I have to apply the sealant (which you did not order, stupid fuck), and wait a few hours for that to dry.  OOH and you pay me 54 dollars an hour.... so how much did you save per item?  Why didn't you just order the part i told you to?  why didn't you just do it the way we told you to do it?

I have a feeling the recycling these is the same way, oh but it's labor intensive it's not profitable.  Well, by using the labor it saves you 3 extra steps of sifting and sorting, it saves you 50k gallons a year of hazmat waste disposal.  Yes it's a bit more expensive up front but pays itself many fold over the course.

currently i rebuild batteries that failed, 9 out of 10 times it's a bms fault that caused the death, or a bad cell.  The rest is fine, replace the 300 dollar bms, save a 3000 dollar battery.  replace the bad cell, may end up eating an entire arm depending on failure mode, but save the rest.

soon you are going to have literally millions of tons of battery waste, what you going to do with it all?  what about when it starts leeching 20 years after you buried it and tried to pretend it was gone forever? you can deal with it now, or half a century down the road when it's going to cost much much more to dig up a cubic mile of waste to process, than a convenient package you can handle in your shop.

NOT just America but the world needs to get out of it's disposable society mindset and start looking at building things to last again, or how to recycle / reuse things better.

Aaron

[ESokoloff]

It’s too bad you spent the time it would have taken to watch that video & enlightening yourself rather then spreading your ignorance. 

Also you showed your age (or rather youth) on “the good ol’ days” of longevity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_longevity