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[ESokoloff]

Nice work!!

The only negative belt story I have was when I inadvertently forded a mud slide. 
It was a rather wet morning in Southern California & on my way to work I found my usual route closed due to rock slides (Malibu Canyon).
I decided to go over the Santa Monica mountains as that road was open.
Unfortunately several miles into the detour i came upon a mudflow that covered the entire road.
I didn’t see it coming as my visibility was hampered by heavy rain/fogging face shield/glasses & it was still pitch black dark. 
Anyway my forward progress was halted when my front tire hit what I presume was a large branch. It was at this point that I realized my predicament when I put my feet down & felt my lower legs get cold from being submerged in mud above my 10” boots!!!
I felt my best option was to progress straight ahead rather than try to jockey the bike around 180° on an off-camber deserted mountain road.
Thankfully the advantage of an EV is no transmission & clutch (Zero DSR) & I was able to walk the bike over obstacles & get out of the muck.
When I did & got up to speed, I heard a clanking sound but everything else was normal so I pressed on to work. 
It was there in the safety of a dry parking garage that I discovered the source of the noise to be the motor sheave’s shoulder that had popped its tack welds so floating/bouncing on the motor shaft.
I figured that mud had been trapped between the sheave & the belt causing hydraulic &/or debris carnage. 
A trip to the dealership & $800 later, my bike was whole again.

Moral of the story, belts suck off-road.

[Grauteufel]

Not just the wheel off unfortunately...swingarm too...not really doable on the side of the road....but it is what it is.

Smithy.

True, but how many people are regularly riding around with a spare chain, chain breaker/peening tool and replacing a chain on the side of the road. Hard core tourers and off-roaders aside, for the rest of us when the bike’s cactus the day is done anyhow.

[Specter]

good point but when it does happen, it's an hour plus job versus 10 minutes.  if you are on a ride for the day or a multi day event, often times folks will carry stuff like that in the designated dumpster i call it because it's mostly harley parts but, the followers in a truck or car that have spare parts they carry with so if something does fall off, it can hopefully quickly be fixed and back with the group instead of ill meet you at the next mornings spot.. type thing.

out of curiosity how do they fuse belts, are they sewn, clued, laser welded?  how difficult would it be to make like an emergency belt where you cut and glue or staple or whatever to get you to a better stopping point?  even if it's a low torque take it easy like the 2 ply wonder wheels some cars have as spares it'd be better than stuck onthe side of the road for hours

aaron

[smithy]

Not just the wheel off unfortunately...swingarm too...not really doable on the side of the road....but it is what it is.

Smithy.

True, but how many people are regularly riding around with a spare chain, chain breaker/peening tool and replacing a chain on the side of the road. Hard core tourers and off-roaders aside, for the rest of us when the bike’s cactus the day is done anyhow.

So true....can't say I've ever had a spare chain and the required tools with me etc....I do carry a spare clip type joining link with me on my chain driven bikes...but who says it's going to snap in the right place..!

Smithy.

[smithy]

Nice work!!

The only negative belt story I have was when I inadvertently forded a mud slide. 
It was a rather wet morning in Southern California & on my way to work I found my usual route closed due to rock slides (Malibu Canyon).
I decided to go over the Santa Monica mountains as that road was open.
Unfortunately several miles into the detour i came upon a mudflow that covered the entire road.
I didn’t see it coming as my visibility was hampered by heavy rain/fogging face shield/glasses & it was still pitch black dark. 
Anyway my forward progress was halted when my front tire hit what I presume was a large branch. It was at this point that I realized my predicament when I put my feet down & felt my lower legs get cold from being submerged in mud above my 10” boots!!!
I felt my best option was to progress straight ahead rather than try to jockey the bike around 180° on an off-camber deserted mountain road.
Thankfully the advantage of an EV is no transmission & clutch (Zero DSR) & I was able to walk the bike over obstacles & get out of the muck.
When I did & got up to speed, I heard a clanking sound but everything else was normal so I pressed on to work. 
It was there in the safety of a dry parking garage that I discovered the source of the noise to be the motor sheave’s shoulder that had popped its tack welds so floating/bouncing on the motor shaft.
I figured that mud had been trapped between the sheave & the belt causing hydraulic &/or debris carnage. 
A trip to the dealership & $800 later, my bike was whole again.

Moral of the story, belts suck off-road.

Yeah....I wonder how the Zero DSR-X guys get on in the wild....I suspect many of the the true off-roaders would convert to chain..!??

Smithy.

[smithy]

good point but when it does happen, it's an hour plus job versus 10 minutes.  if you are on a ride for the day or a multi day event, often times folks will carry stuff like that in the designated dumpster i call it because it's mostly harley parts but, the followers in a truck or car that have spare parts they carry with so if something does fall off, it can hopefully quickly be fixed and back with the group instead of ill meet you at the next mornings spot.. type thing.

out of curiosity how do they fuse belts, are they sewn, clued, laser welded?  how difficult would it be to make like an emergency belt where you cut and glue or staple or whatever to get you to a better stopping point?  even if it's a low torque take it easy like the 2 ply wonder wheels some cars have as spares it'd be better than stuck onthe side of the road for hours

aaron

I believe the belts are made in a continuous wide loop, not fused or glued/welded, I've not seen any evidence of a "join" on any of my belts....and the belts are then sliced off the main part in the correct width. During my research to do my conversion I found several manufacturers who made the same pitch & length belt in multiple widths...I suspect they're just sliced off the main part to suit. You can buy Harley belts of the same length but in 1", 1-1/8", 1-3/8", 1-1/2" etc...widths...all cut from the same master loop I suspect.

I've seen "Emergency" drive belt kits for Harleys, they're a longitudinally split overlapping belt, (one end somewhat like a snake's tongue), which has holes sideways through the teeth and a dozen or so pins to join the ends together etc...would possibly get you out of trouble until a new belt can be fitted.

I wonder if I could make something similar to fit my bike using and old belt and home made "screw together" loop pins..?? Just in case the unthinkable happened..!

Smithy.

[jotjotde]

Wow, a spare belt for emergency use - I did not know something like this existed!

Yes, the belts with reinforcing inlays are cut from a wide 'tube' and the sides are then often coated for enhanced operation.
Only belts without inlay can be cut and welded togehter from a reel. There are nice vids available on youtube.

Last year I attended an event where a dozen or more Zero riders were present. Interestingly, their experiences with belts appeared to cover a wide range.
For every one praising longevity there was one reporting a sudden early death. But, yes, the majority was satified with the performance.

What I like with chains is their predictability, they very very rarely give up on you suddenly. You can easily see if it's corroded, bent, missing rings etc. As an engineer I love that you can easily measure their enlongation which gives you a good guess about their residual lifetime.

[T.S. Zarathustra]

Nice to know that emergency belts exist. Maybe I should get one. Even if I have to limit the throttle to 10-20% until I get home. It would at least save a tow truck.
I remember a guy who "fixed" a snapped belt by gluing foot long portion of a stripped belt back to back. It lasted until replacement arrived. If I'd known there would be belt driven bikes in my future I'd have looked into how he did this. What glue etc.

[smithy]

Nice to know that emergency belts exist. Maybe I should get one. Even if I have to limit the throttle to 10-20% until I get home. It would at least save a tow truck.
I remember a guy who "fixed" a snapped belt by gluing foot long portion of a stripped belt back to back. It lasted until replacement arrived. If I'd known there would be belt driven bikes in my future I'd have looked into how he did this. What glue etc.

I've only seen emergency belts for Harleys, 14mm pitch...I've not seen any others. My belt is 11mm pitch like most of the Zeros.

Smithy.

[SilentPea]

I'd be looking around to see if you can loop a spare belt through the swing arm and zip tie it out of the way. Then roadside repair is just remove the remains of the first belt, slide the wheel forward (or partially remove for clearance), loop on the spare, and re-tension.

I don't recall if this was suggested on the thread earlier, but I recall it on various Zero discussions and have seen it in practice for lawn mowers/boats/etc.

[jotjotde]

I'd be looking around to see if you can loop a spare belt through the swing arm and zip tie it out of the way. Then roadside repair is just remove the remains of the first belt, slide the wheel forward (or partially remove for clearance), loop on the spare, and re-tension.

I don't recall if this was suggested on the thread earlier, but I recall it on various Zero discussions and have seen it in practice for lawn mowers/boats/etc.

That can be done easier on a Zero with a CENTRAL STAND (this word is a rage trigger for most Experia owners )

Quite a challenge on a bike leaning to the side with over 100 kg load on the rear wheel.

[Specter]

slight hijack.
anyone ever hear any official word why the center stand never happened?  design change, didn't pay the manufacturer, what?
Aaron

[SilentPea]

I was thinking the FX where you just kick it over onto a convenient patch of dirt, but yeah lack of center stand (and fragile chin fairing) would make it more difficult on the energicas.

[smithy]

I'd be looking around to see if you can loop a spare belt through the swing arm and zip tie it out of the way. Then roadside repair is just remove the remains of the first belt, slide the wheel forward (or partially remove for clearance), loop on the spare, and re-tension.

I don't recall if this was suggested on the thread earlier, but I recall it on various Zero discussions and have seen it in practice for lawn mowers/boats/etc.

That can be done easier on a Zero with a CENTRAL STAND (this word is a rage trigger for most Experia owners )

Quite a challenge on a bike leaning to the side with over 100 kg load on the rear wheel.

You can replace the belt on most Zeros without removing the swingarm as the swingarm pivot and front pulley are in the same place.....belt is easy to replace on them.

Smithy.

[smithy]

slight hijack.
anyone ever hear any official word why the center stand never happened?  design change, didn't pay the manufacturer, what?
Aaron

They did make some for promotional purposes and I believe the police bikes they supplied for one or two European countries had them...I stand corrected though.

Smithy.