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[smithy]

@smithy - but if you are south of the equator, don't you need a left handed sinewave on your hertz-o-meter?  Don't want your coriolis swirling your boreallis backwards on that wheel now !  You might want to flush the toilet to see which way the water spins just to be sure   

Aaron

ps did you try sprocketcenter.com for your front pulley?  they have all kinds of interesting and sometimes off the wall stuff for bikes.   if this setup is working nicely for you, what are you expecting / hoping to do with the different size up front?

Hi Aaron,

It is indeed more difficult working whilst upside-down..! 

With the front pulley, it is currently 28 tooth which has a considerable "overdrive" compared to the desired ratio, my speedo reads ~10kmh low vs gps actual.. Ideally I would like to have a 25 tooth front pulley, finding one which is compatible and easily modified is proving difficult...I could get one made but it would cost a small fortune for a "one-off". I do have a 26 tooth pulley coming hopefully next week, This will give a much closer to ideal ratio than the current 28T. It's for a 40mm wide belt so I'll attempt to get that one modified to suit...and fitted in the next couple of weekends. This will mean the rear wheel will need to come back 11mm more than it is now, there's not much adjustment left but I cannot find a slightly shorter belt with the same dimensions. Alternately I can leave the wheel where it is and fit the tensioner to take up the difference...this will keep a constant belt tension no matter the swingarm position. Swingarm pivot/belt clearance then becomes an issue due to the smaller diameter pulley...time will tell.

I have been riding the bike all week to work and back....and again this weekend for several hundred km's without any issues, getting close to 2000kms on the belt system so far...the belt appears to be unaffected with no strange wear or noises, I haven't even had to adjust the belt tension either, which is promising. Biggest plus for me is the lack of chain/sprocket noise, constant chain ajustment and chain lube all over the back of the bike and wheel. So far, so good.

Smithy.

[Specter]

Too bad Energica is not back fully yet.  A simple software fix to let you put in sprocket sizes would work perfectly too for the speedo instead of diddling with pulleys sprockets etc.   The race software has that and ive got mine dialed in perfectly.  Id not get too overworked on making the speedometer perfect that it causes an overengineering nightmare.  You could always put 205's on the back too to make up the difference a bit

Aaron

[smithy]

Too bad Energica is not back fully yet.  A simple software fix to let you put in sprocket sizes would work perfectly too for the speedo instead of diddling with pulleys sprockets etc.   The race software has that and ive got mine dialed in perfectly.  Id not get too overworked on making the speedometer perfect that it causes an overengineering nightmare.  You could always put 205's on the back too to make up the difference a bit

Aaron

Would be nice if a simple software tweak could sort it...however....dropping the front pulley size will have it accelerating a bit better....with the current overdrive, she's a bit lazy off the line....cruising and higher speeds are lower motor rpm wise though.

Smithy.

[jotjotde]

Biggest plus for me is the lack of chain/sprocket noise, constant chain ajustment and chain lube all over the back of the bike and wheel.

My suggestion for anyone feeling the same: switch to PTFE based dry chain lube spray. You apply a layer, wait for a minute and wipe the excess off. That's it. No mess anymore. Relubing every 400-500 km or after riding in wet conditions.
My current chain has seen 28k km now and needed retightening just once yet (1/6 turn at the adjuster screws). The one before that I changed atfter 32k km not because the chain was kaput but because the sprocket was worn.

Alternatively, if you are well off, use the Regina HPE chain. It will cost more than double and totally disintegrate after just 15k km, but no lubing or tightening necessary.

[ESokoloff]

……….
The swingarm is at it's longest with rider aboard, the tension is obviously not constant through the entire travel, it is less at full travel in either way....the BMW F800GT is the same and they don't seem to suffer any ill effects.
Good idea with the ratchet strap...I might give it a shot and see exactly what happens. The swingarm is very long compared to a lot of other bikes so the arc difference is not too drastic.

I have "mocked up" a constant tension tensioner just in case. Thoughts..??

Smithy.

Yes your right that the tension is greatest when the swingarm is parallel with motor (axle, swingarm  pivot, & motor shaft  all align).
What needs to be determined is that @ full compression & full rebound is the reduced tension (“slop”) excessive? 

You could remove the shock to make swingarm arc easier but you won’t know where the travel stops are (as determined by the shock).
When using a ratchet strap(s) be careful with your seat (spread the load or remove the seat).

Also the BMW ICE motors differ from an EV in that the EV makes instant torque so will be harder on belts (DAMHIK) so your application may require a tensioner to insure reliability/longevity.

Re tensioner mock up:
Are the bolts long enough for full width threads to engage the nylon lock ring?
If not a dab of blue locktite is in order.
Radius the corners on the finished aluminum plate.
Otherwise it looks good (as viewed on a small phone screen so take that into consideration).

[smithy]

……….
The swingarm is at it's longest with rider aboard, the tension is obviously not constant through the entire travel, it is less at full travel in either way....the BMW F800GT is the same and they don't seem to suffer any ill effects.
Good idea with the ratchet strap...I might give it a shot and see exactly what happens. The swingarm is very long compared to a lot of other bikes so the arc difference is not too drastic.

I have "mocked up" a constant tension tensioner just in case. Thoughts..??

Smithy.

Yes your right that the tension is greatest when the swingarm is parallel with motor (axle, swingarm  pivot, & motor shaft  all align).
What needs to be determined is that @ full compression & full rebound is the reduced tension (“slop”) excessive? 

You could remove the shock to make swingarm arc easier but you won’t know where the travel stops are (as determined by the shock).
When using a ratchet strap(s) be careful with your seat (spread the load or remove the seat).

Also the BMW ICE motors differ from an EV in that the EV makes instant torque so will be harder on belts (DAMHIK) so your application may require a tensioner to insure reliability/longevity.

Re tensioner mock up:
Are the bolts long enough for full width threads to engage the nylon lock ring?
If not a dab of blue locktite is in order.
Radius the corners on the finished aluminum plate.
Otherwise it looks good (as viewed on a small phone screen so take that into consideration).

Thanks for the advice Eric...I do read everybody's input and it is greatly appreciated...The tensioner mock-up is just that at this stage, a mock-up...I was mainly checking for part clearance issues and whether the side stand will interfere with anything when the stand is up...luckily is just misses everything, the mounting bolts and locking nuts etc will have correct/adequate thread engagement when the final item is completed, I have an aircraft engineering background so I know where you're coming from. The aluminium plate the tensioner is mounted to will indeed be adjusted and trimmed to look a lot better when it is finally fitted...if I find it is actually necessary, the jury is still out on that for the time being.

The suspension travel and indeed the swingarm arc is fairly long on the Experia so all of this will need to be taken into account along with the top and bottom suspension travel stop points.

Smithy.

[smithy]

Hi All,

The new 26T front pulley I ordered has just arrived...hopefully I will get some time this coming weekend to machine & modify it to fit the Experia front chain sprocket/spline....should be a lot closer to the correct final drive ratio than the current 28T front pulley.

I've been riding the bike to work all of last week and this week, inspecting the belt after each journey...nothing of note to report other than it works as I had hoped, smooth, clean and silent.

I'll keep you posted on any progress.

Smithy.

[Specter]

smithy what part of the world are you in?
im getting ready to take my experia for a romp on the track, ill pay your rental and admittance, come ride with me, this could be fun and we really get to test out your bike!

have you noticed any difference in handling or mileage or hard to tell?

Aaron

[smithy]

smithy what part of the world are you in?
im getting ready to take my experia for a romp on the track, ill pay your rental and admittance, come ride with me, this could be fun and we really get to test out your bike!

have you noticed any difference in handling or mileage or hard to tell?

Aaron

LOL...I'm in Brisbane, Australia mate...!  A bit far to get over to the US for a track day. Don't forget the Experia is electronically limited to 180kmh or ~112mph..!

Performance with the overdrive front pulley has the "out of the hole acceleration" a bit slower than is normal, cruising and higher speeds present no real difference other than the motor rpm is ~10% less for the same speed.... but I hope to sort this with the new pulley ratio.
Handling and mileage is essentially unchanged, I read on lots of different interweb groups/posts that a belt drive is a bit less efficient than a chain & sprockets...but I don't know to be honest, these days with the newer carbon/kevlar/aramid belts and very efficient HTD pulley systems...I don't think there would be much difference, I can't really pick the difference.....range wise the bike is essentially the same as when the chain was fitted. +/-1%.

My daily commute has the battery usage per trip essentially unchanged...is the belt better than a chain..?? Probably not performance wise. Is the belt drive smoother and quieter..?? Definitely. It's definitely cleaner, no more chain lube/spooge all over the rear wheel, back of the bike and under the top box. I know for sure it is definitely maintenance free and I've not had to adjust the belt tension since fitting it either, (although I haven't done a great deal of mileage with it yet), all these points are a major plus for me.

Smithy.

[Specter]

Well you could ride the thing over here mate, just watch out for the rocks   ill have a cool pint waiting for you when ya arrive. as long as its working for you that's all that matters and if it's lasting a while too, that's even better.

aaron

[smithy]

Well you could ride the thing over here mate, just watch out for the rocks   ill have a cool pint waiting for you when ya arrive. as long as its working for you that's all that matters and if it's lasting a while too, that's even better.

aaron

Unfortunately I don't drink alcohol...but thanks for the kind offer..

Current belt and pulley's are still going well, no strange wear or noises from the belt, approaching 3000km on the setup so far, haven't needed to adjust the tension yet either, which is surprising . This is my 3rd week of commuting to work with the new belt setup...along with a couple of weekend rides with a few friends.

The new 26T pulley is in the process of being "modified" to fit the Experia, not an easy task with a basic lathe and tools I have at my disposal..it will happen, but not quickly, I'm taking my time, I don't want to screw it up.

It's a pleasant surprise to not see chain lube all over the place, on the rear wheel, dribbling down the side stand and all over the underside of the top box. Chain guard is nice and clean too...it's usually caked with crap.

Smithy.

[Specter]

i never really had horrible problems with the lube being just slobbered all over everything.  i wash the chain frequently clean it and re lube it, but i also use that chain wax stuff which seems to keep things neater.   i got about 2k on my race bike before i had to replace the chain / sprocket due to the dragon teeth thing, but the sludge buildup was really minimal fortunately.  i found that the biggest catcher was the front sprocket, under the guard it was almost solid gunk / road grime.

but yah i understand, not slinging oil and shit on your back when you take off from doing a maintenance is nice.

aaron

[smithy]

Hi All,

Minor update, new front pulley is all but finished......26T instead of the current 28T. A lot of machining and swearing etc....but it's almost done, just need to bore holes for the 8mm 12.9 "shoulder bolts" to go through the sprocket and pulley internal mount flange. The new pulley is hardened cast iron so machining was slow and difficult at best with my small (mostly inadequate) lathe & tools.

So far I have close to 3500km on the current belt and pulleys, no evidence of strange wear or noises....I have found no real need for a tensioner as yet...but I'll see how the new setup goes for a few thousand kms before I make up my mind.

Smithy.

[smithy]

New pulley is done and ready to hopefully fit this coming weekend.

This ia a "highly modified" pully from a Yamaha T-Max 560/Kymco AK550 "Muscle Scooter".

Smithy.

[smithy]

And another view.

I'm using 8 x 8mm grade 12.9 "shoulder bolts"....should be plenty strong enough to handle the torque.

Smithy.