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[Commodore]

Okay, I don't mind opening myself up to ridicule if someone else gets a laugh at my expense.  If I learn something in the process all the better.

Searching the forum, years ago there was a thread about electromagnetic radiation and electric motorcycles.  Around the same time, there was talk about voltage regulators under the seats of many bikes possibly being a cancer concern.  Now, I am not a doomsday prepper or anti-vaxxer or any other currently popular category of fringe.  However, after taking all the body panels off my Experia to see what was misaligned after my tip-over, I had to say HMMMMM at all the cables and electronic components right under my private parts, even though all the legit science says not to worry.

Some research pointed me to Faraday fabric, that, in certain applications, can shield one's self or devices from this speculatively harmful radiation.  Understood is that with our motorcycle's electronic components, we are at the low end of the energetic spectrum, not the high end like microwaves, etc, with a equally low chance of adversarial effects.

So, at $12 per yard, what could it hurt if I cover (using as an adhesive a 3M two-sided scrim tape) the bottom of my seat pans with this Faraday fabric?  At worst, I'm wasting my time.  I will never know if I prevented my death by radiation from the many other ways of offing myself.  An added benefit is this stuff would make a bang-up suit or Halloween costume!  Except...it's flammable.

Comments welcome.

[Pard]

Interesting indeed.  never even thought about this issue.  Decided to Grok the question:

"Electric motorcycles produce electromagnetic fields (EMFs) due to their electrical systems, batteries, and motors, but the health risks to riders are generally considered minimal based on current research.

Here's a breakdown:
EMF Exposure: Electric motorcycles generate low-frequency EMFs, primarily from the battery and motor. These fields are typically strongest near the battery and wiring but diminish rapidly with distance. The rider's body is usually far enough from these sources that exposure levels are low. Studies on similar low-frequency EMFs (e.g., from household appliances or electric vehicles) indicate that typical exposure levels are well below the thresholds set by organizations like the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) or the World Health Organization (WHO). For example, ICNIRP guidelines specify safe exposure limits for low-frequency EMFs (0–100 kHz), and electric vehicle studies show emissions are often 10–20% of these limits.

Radiation Type: The EMFs from electric motorcycles are non-ionizing, meaning they lack the energy to break DNA or cause cellular damage, unlike ionizing radiation (e.g., X-rays). Non-ionizing radiation at the frequencies and intensities produced by electric motorcycles (typically 0–10 kHz) is not known to cause harm in the short term.

Health Risks: Decades of research on low-frequency EMFs have found no consistent evidence of harm at typical exposure levels. Some studies have explored potential links between long-term, high-intensity EMF exposure and conditions like cancer or neurological issues, but results are inconclusive, and electric motorcycle exposure is far lower than occupational scenarios (e.g., power line workers). Riders are exposed only during operation, further limiting cumulative effects.

Practical Considerations: The EMF levels from electric motorcycles are comparable to or lower than those from electric cars or public transit systems. Factors like seat height and shielding in the motorcycle's design further reduce exposure. For context, a 2019 study on electric vehicles measured EMF levels in the driver’s seat at 0.1–2 µT (microtesla), well below ICNIRP’s 200 µT limit for public exposure.

Precautions: While risks are negligible, riders concerned about EMFs can:
Choose motorcycles with better shielding or lower EMF emissions (varies by model).

Limit prolonged exposure by taking breaks on long rides.

Avoid direct contact with high-voltage components.

If you want me to dig deeper into specific motorcycle models or recent studies, let me know! I can also search X or the web for any new discussions or data on this topic."

[Commodore]

Here seems to be a comprehensive analysis, not moto-specific.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/radiation/electromagnetic-fields-fact-sheet

From 2022.

[Specter]

you are bombarded with emf all day long from every source imaginable.
there is a big difference between ionizing and non ionizing radiation.

granted the jury is still out on the lower frequency stuff ie 60 hz but you are doing far more damage to yourself staring at your phone 12 hours a day than riding a bike maybe 30 minutes a day.  if you are sitting at a computer right now and not face first in a phone, the compy sitting next to you and the screen you are reading this on is bombing you with emf.

That stuff under the seat, on the bike i believe that is the battery charger, so only is active really when you are charging, and you won't be on the  seat then.  id also worry about ventilation, that stuff gets warm, so might want to think about covering it up with expensive copper woven cloth that  will kill air flow.

finally if you are worried about a real emp, unless the thing is totally enclosed in a faraday shield, that won't help protect you.

aaron

[Grauteufel]

While I'm not concerned about the biological effects of non-ionising radiation, I do hate that both our bikes create not insignificant interference to the radio reception on the cardo headsets. Lining the seat pan and all the panels probably would go a long way to cutting out the annoying high pitch squeal we hear on the radio signal

[Ingineer]

I am an Electrical Engineer.

I agree with everything @Specter said, in addition, all HV cabling is shielded already, and all active components are encased in metal.  This stops RF propagation, which is required in many locales to stop the bike's (or any other EV) from emitting noise that could affect communication systems.



It doesn't stop magnetic fields, but these do not radiate far otherwise it would mean the system is horribly inefficient, which it's not.

There has been zero good science that proves there's any risk to exposure to EM fields at the levels the bike emits.   I think we'd know by know if it was dangerous, having had LF EMF around for ~100 years now.

[Specter]

actually that shielding does dampen electrical fields / magnetic fields pretty significantly.  We use it on the 230kv for just that purpose.  it also serves as a ground bond as well.  we had an incident many years ago where the idiots were using a tesla coil to test the lightning arrestors and somehow or another punctured one of the cables with it on a live circuit.  luckily they didn't die on the spot.

I have never had a problem with my cardo on the bike, if your cardo is squealing and giving you issues, that's a first for me hearing about noise issues with them.   Does it have the latest software on it, and have you asked them about it?  They might have a fix, if it is an issue, it's worth a try.  About the only thing that might give you issues is the beat freq clock on your dashboard unit, ive heard some chirps with a bird unit from that but otherwise, the bike should not give you any squealing from the motor / inverter.   The worst i think you'd ever get would be 400 / 1200 hz if you harmonized all phases thru a very sloppy rectifier.  When do you notice the squeal, and does it ever change with modes, like activating go or charging etc etc.

do you have it in fm radio mode and getting the squealing.  really curious now.



Aaron

[Grauteufel]

When do you notice the squeal, and does it ever change with modes, like activating go or charging etc etc.

do you have it in fm radio mode and getting the squealing.  really curious now.



Aaron

In FM radio mode, changing pitch in relation to throttle usage, and interestingly, indicator usage (turn signals for the non-english speakers). I can't say I've had the radio on when I've started a charge (DC or AC), but now you've mentioned it I will test this on the way home this faternoon.

[princec]

You've heard about tinfoil hats ... how about tinfoil underpants? 

Cas

[jotjotde]

In the end all this is about potential risks and how you FEEL about it.

I think we all agree, that the cancer potential of electromagnetic radiation at the experienced level is very low, but never zero.
Life itself is risky, even staying in bed all day has a certain risk potential.
(Statistically the bed is the most dangerous place on earth - billions of people died in their beds already!)

Everyone has to decide if that level is OK or if they want to minimize it.
So, if you decide to wear chain mail underwear or a chastity cage for protection, go ahead 

[Specter]

i tried plate mail underwear once but the codpiece kept shorting out the battery terminals!

Aaron

[SBK74]

Not for health stuff or HV shielding,  but there is a phenomenon that Energicas tend to have more issues with CCS handshake when there are more vehicles charging around the motorcycle. I have experienced many charging isses on my September trip in a group of 5 Energicas; first arriving bike usually get's the handshake done, later connecting bikes struggle. When applied, I am curious to learn if handshake issues reduce.

[Specter]

ideally it shouldn't have anything to do with it because all that comms is on the wire plugged into it.  now whether that wire is picking stray signals up from the air around it, and all those wires are acting like an antenna is an entirely different story.  induced currents can cause hell, especially if trying to measure resistance.

there is also a digital component, and if several of you are suddenly charging, the station itself may begin having difficulties with all the comms, and cross bleed may occur internally on it's card level, causing interference on the lines, resulting in failed starts or dropped sessions.  Bandwidth is another concern.  if you are out in the boonies and it's got only like half a bar of signal strength, not only it's internal to your vehicle comms but to the outside to authorize you bla bla, can get slowed down or timeout and stall as well.

another issue, which should not really affect YOUR group, is different vehicles just 'do things' in different ways, you've absolutely seen this on your trips, now if the station has to handle 5 different vehicles, that each wants to talk in 5 slightly different ways, it can confuse it or slow things down.  however if you are in a group of energica's only, again, should not affect you with that one.

yes please keep us informed id be very interested to see what you figure out!
Aaron

[Ingineer]

Not for health stuff or HV shielding,  but there is a phenomenon that Energicas tend to have more issues with CCS handshake when there are more vehicles charging around the motorcycle. I have experienced many charging isses on my September trip in a group of 5 Energicas; first arriving bike usually get's the handshake done, later connecting bikes struggle. When applied, I am curious to learn if handshake issues reduce.

This is because CCS uses PLC (Power Line Communications) as it's communications system.   Because this is essentially radio over wires, it can "bleed" where it's not wanted.   There is a protocol called SLAC (signal level attenuation characterization) that is designed to help mitigate this, but it doesn't always work as expected.

[Specter]

to add to what he said. zero point comms is also horribly susceptable to any outside noise, since it communicates during the 'no power' phase, assuming a 1.0 pf, ANY thing there is going to be interpreted as the signal, fail parity checks, whole bunch of problems when noise is there.
Your AC charger is not nasa quality stuff, so i guarantee is bleeding all over the place and the 29 cent ferrite coil is NOT going to attenuate it all.

with everything wireless nowadays, i don't understand why they don't update the standard, add a bluetooth / wifi component with near field comms, put the head on your plug and the transmitter on your car ring around the plug type thing,  yes that's ancient and messy too but it'd work a hell of a lot better than trying to run a signal next to a 48 khz chopped (DC) power plug.  either that or a low range wifi in the charging unit itself to talk directly to your car / bike.  I think tesla kind of does that with it's cars, but it wouldn't be hard at all to make an adapter, hell a bluetooth dongle, to let a non tesla wifi talk to it,  or any other unit.

i find it amazing that we have 21st century innovations, running with 1970s mindsets pushing the communications, it's not like it needs to survive a nuke or something, the entire bike / grid is gone then, but hey, you'll be able to connect your bike!!

just my 2 copper cents,  ... not quite as worthless as the new zinc pennies   

Aaron