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[Specter]

My dealer is recommending oil seals, dust seals and bushings for the forks as well, is any of that necessary?

YES !!  i just had to have my forks redone on my Ribelle because the race forks typically don't come with that stuff, i picked up road grime and they started leaking oil down the fork, almost onto the brake pads.  i would recommend seals.

aaron

[DonTom]

Thanks Don, good point.  So they want to charge me 900 just for the steering bearing...  How hard is this job?  I will check out youtube first for 900.  Any special tools necessary?

I have done all the work you mentioned but only on ICE bikes in the past. There was nothing special that I needed to do any of it.


I rebuilt the forks and replaced the steering bearings, but only on my 1971 BMW & 1984 Yamaha Venture. I am surprised that newer bikes are having such problems these days with that stuff.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Demoni]

Thanks Don, good point.  So they want to charge me 900 just for the steering bearing...  How hard is this job?  I will check out youtube first for 900.  Any special tools necessary?

$900 for parts and labor for that job sounds reasonable. You need to remove some fairings, front wheel, forks and the handlebars.

As for job specific tools:
To knock out the bearing outer races from the frame https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/head-cup-remover-oversized-rt-2?category=Headset
To remove the bearing inner race from the lower triple tree https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0544
To press new outer races into the frame https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0669
You will also need a 46mm socket to torque the steering nut that is used to preload the bearings.

My dealer is recommending oil seals, dust seals and bushings for the forks as well, is any of that necessary?

If the forks are leaking oil the seals may be damaged, requiring replacement. Rule of thumb is fork oil and seals every 2-3 years, oil breaks down over time. Since the change in performance is so gradual it's easy to overlook. A bike feels worlds better after a fork/shock service, like when you get a fresh set of tires mounted.

[Specter]

What Demoni said, can't be stressed enough.

Oil wears out, sucks water from the air, gets crappy, changes viscosity so it don't work properly in the shock or fork assembly anymore.
Brake fluid is same way, suck water from the air, gets broken down by thermal cycling etc etc.

You should check this at least yearly IMO, and if you are a more spirited rider, ride very often, or do track days etc.  Just pay the 20 bucks and put new shit in.  You don't notice until it gets real bad (or your times start to hurt because the bike just feels like something is 'off' with the handling), and when you finally do change it, it's like WOW it's like a new bike!!

Brakes, worse case, catastrophic failure, the brakes lock up on you coming into a turn you flip and end up being the latest lawn ornament.  It's your call how important it is to keep good fluids in your bike.

Aaron

[Pard]

Regarding replacing fork seals, you may want to try a fork seal cleaner first, before a rebuild.  Cheap, easy to use, and sometime they do work.

Changing fork fluid is easy to do yourself.  Takes time but not difficult.  Watch a bunch of videos and buy the required specialty tools.  Once you get over the inhibition to try, you will be able to maintain your forks for the rest of your motorcycling life.  Very satisfying job to perform.

https://sealmate.net/

[ESokoloff]

My Experia eats head bearings. I have just 30,000 miles on it and installed my 4th set of tapered roller bearings over the weekend.

The Stockers gave up the ghost at ~9000 miles.  it looks like head bearings are a 10000 mile consumable.

Some Experias just do that. 2 others others have complained of the same thing on social media. Still trying to figure out why.

. We'll see if I'm replacing this set in 10,000 miles.

Sounds to me like the bonding conductor on these bikes is damaged or nonexistent.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bonding+conductor+to+eliminate+static+electricity+to+protect+bearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#sbfbu=1&pi=bonding%20conductor%20to%20eliminate%20static%20electricity%20to%20protect%20bearings

[Specter]

pretty radical jump to a conclusion without even seeing what kind of damage they suffered.

do you tell your mechanic your car is making a weird sound and just go with, oh it needs a new transmission, without even looking at it?

GIGO

that's the problem with AI,  it can be seen as 'smart' but does not have common sense, much like anyone who would just run with the first thing it pukes out at them.

Aaron

[ESokoloff]

Suit yourself with your ignorance.

[Demoni]

Regarding replacing fork seals, you may want to try a fork seal cleaner first, before a rebuild.  Cheap, easy to use, and sometime they do work.

Changing fork fluid is easy to do yourself.  Takes time but not difficult.  Watch a bunch of videos and buy the required specialty tools.  Once you get over the inhibition to try, you will be able to maintain your forks for the rest of your motorcycling life.  Very satisfying job to perform.

If the fork seals are leaking due to dirt or grime getting trapped between the seal and the lower fork tube cleaning them can fix the issue. However if the leak is caused by damage to the seal, replacement is the only option.

DIY fork service is totally doable, here are the specs for the forks.

• Showa cross reference seals for the Marzocchi forks: AP8123825 43x54x11mm.
• The forks use 7.5w oil and each requires 425ml. Free air measurement is 110mm.

Regarding specialized tools the Marzocchi forks do not require expensive tools like Ohlins

• Fork oil level measurements are done with the fork spring removed
• You will need to remove the top cap to get the spring out of the shock, that requires a thin 19mm wrench.
• To remove fork seals you can use an extractor but a large flat bladed screwdriver will also work.
• To install fork seals you should use the correct size 2 piece seal driver.

[Pard]

Good information.  Thanks @Demoni 

[ESokoloff]

My Experia eats head bearings. I have just 30,000 miles on it and installed my 4th set of tapered roller bearings over the weekend.

The Stockers gave up the ghost at ~9000 miles.  it looks like head bearings are a 10000 mile consumable.

Some Experias just do that. 2 others others have complained of the same thing on social media. Still trying to figure out why.

. We'll see if I'm replacing this set in 10,000 miles.

Sounds to me like the bonding conductor on these bikes is damaged or nonexistent.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bonding+conductor+to+eliminate+static+electricity+to+protect+bearings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#sbfbu=1&pi=bonding%20conductor%20to%20eliminate%20static%20electricity%20to%20protect%20bearings

Motopropondent, do you know if your steering head & swingarm are bonded to the bikes frame?
My 2016 Zero DSR still has the original head bearing @ 95k miles & it has bonding conductors (18 AWG wire if memory serves me well). I did have to replace the swingarm bearings @ about 48k miles but I attribute that to cyclic bearing wear.

AC motors run through VFD’s create static electricity & Zero felt it necessary to add bonding conductors on their products so that’s something you should look into on your bike.

[Specter]

The head bearing is not in the electrical circuit, not part of the path.  The head bearing is further mechanically isolated from the motor / chain / belt / inverter etc.  the path to ground is much lower resistance through the frame than the head bearing, bonding strap or not.

In order for there to be pitting from electrostatic discharge, that is sufficient enough to evaporate steel at 1500 degrees C, there would need to be arcing from the inner race to the outer race/  race to balls/ Something...  there is nothing in the front end, on the wheel in the wheel or axle to generate static electric to cause it to want to jump from the inner race to the outer race, and again, the frame is a far less resistive path for current discharge than trying to sneak to a mechanically isolated object and THEN back to ground.   static electric is going to ground itself on the frame / forks before trying to jump to the inner race to goto ground.

This isn't a motor bearing, generator or rotor bearing.  There also is nothing making / flowing juice inside to want to jump outside.

Damage is most likely due to wear, poor lubrication, excessive abuse, contamination, or shock from a crash or really nasty pothole perhaps, and then it exasperated.

Arcing damage is also very tell tale, you won't mistake it when you see it.  If you had that much build up - up front to cause it,it'd also more than likely be raising total hell with the electronic controls on the handlebars, the display unit too.

When you get this bearing out IF you decide change it, can you please take pictures of the damage and post it, that way we can possibly see what caused it, or more than likely what did NOT cause it.

Thank you.

Aaron

[ESokoloff]

The head bearing is not in the electrical circuit, not part of the path.  The head bearing is further mechanically isolated from the motor / chain / belt / inverter etc.  the path to ground is much lower resistance through the frame than the head bearing, bonding strap or not.

In order for there to be pitting from electrostatic discharge, that is sufficient enough to evaporate steel at 1500 degrees C, there would need to be arcing from the inner race to the outer race/  race to balls/ Something...  there is nothing in the front end, on the wheel in the wheel or axle to generate static electric to cause it to want to jump from the inner race to the outer race, and again, the frame is a far less resistive path for current discharge than trying to sneak to a mechanically isolated object and THEN back to ground.   static electric is going to ground itself on the frame / forks before trying to jump to the inner race to goto ground.

This isn't a motor bearing, generator or rotor bearing.  There also is nothing making / flowing juice inside to want to jump outside.

Damage is most likely due to wear, poor lubrication, excessive abuse, contamination, or shock from a crash or really nasty pothole perhaps, and then it exasperated.

Arcing damage is also very tell tale, you won't mistake it when you see it.  If you had that much build up - up front to cause it,it'd also more than likely be raising total hell with the electronic controls on the handlebars, the display unit too.

When you get this bearing out IF you decide change it, can you please take pictures of the damage and post it, that way we can possibly see what caused it, or more than likely what did NOT cause it.

Thank you.

Aaron

Guess your smarter then the designers/engineers @ Zero that felt bonding conductors from the frame to swingarm & steering head were a necessity.

[Specter]

we are talking about an experia, not a zero here.  even then it still applies.
do you even know how  electricity works?  or how that bearing even works in the system.

please with your knowledge, explain how and why the electric would, or even want to, jump thru a bearing race, punch through the non conductive grease to get into the inner race to find ground on the head bearing when the frame is accessible many easier places for it to get to ? you throw out buzz words without a clue how the system works, then trust ai to answer all your needs, when you  feed it a garbage query because you don't know how the system works.  you are the one thinking an inverter/vfd is going to produce enough eddy current with significant amplitude to burn craters in a hardened steel bearing isolated from that system.  at very worst, maybe, some issues with the motor or rear wheel bearings, head bearing.... no.

why don't you ask your question of the zero engineers, and when they get done laughing, let me know what they told you.
maybe they'll tell you to check the radio antenna next or tire pressure.

out of curiosity, how old are you, .... checking another theory here.

aaron

still wanting to see the pictures of the bearing damage.

[ESokoloff]

Or how about this….
Motoproponent checks his bikes steering head/frame bond conductor if it exists & if it does & is in good condition then I’m wrong.