Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Fran K]

I thought I posted in a thread on this site.  Anyone else interested?  When in 2017 and I got the ktm thought to myself this should be good until two wheel drive or the chain is eliminated in a future model.  Well, The CanAm pulse and origin could be counted as eliminating the chain.

I have seen them at Scranton motorsports in Rockville Ct and talked on the phone to a dealership just south of Parkersburg Wv.  Both persons I talked to say the charger is not included with the motorcycle.  The literature leads me to believe that the on board charger is liquid cooled.  The bikes are in stock but according to the sales folks the charger costs extra and they don't have them yet.  My guess is the thing they don't have is an off board charger for 120 volts, some kind of cord perhaps with a lump in it?  The guy in Mineral wells (think Appalachian oil) says they have a demo model coming, you can sit on one for now that is it.  The one in Ct is just buy it now,  you have to go to a public charger for now.

It is quite possible that there are terms and conditions the owner has to agree to on the screen.  The one person was trying to scroll to the bottom but the other one came by and seemed to twist the throttle a little and the terms and conditions business went away.  Probably until the next time the key is turned.

For being an electric motorcycle advocate or just one hoping there is a market for the things it is pretty sad, go to cycle trader find one, and the Hybrid Kawasaki for that matter and see how many views in the last 30 days.

[Fran K]

Ok it is more than 120 days the site suggests I might be better starting a new thread.  It appears Zero and Energica are the hot topics on this site at least with actual owners.

I don't know if readers on here and there are way more of them that are guests than members are price conscious or not.  Have much interest in a motorcycle with an enclosed chain that is not a regular roller type.  At any rate like most electric motorcycles it starts out as put a deposit and reserve one and then it becomes great big incentive.  Looks like $4000 off msrp until the end of October.  Will it be $5000 off till the end of January in the near future, hard to tell.  Not sure if it is Can Am or other powersports but a dealer would not let me take the quote this spring just wrote 17,200 or so on their business card otd.  Different dealer but now over the phone it is 11,500 otd. They won't email me the quote.  They don't come with a cord to plug it in, so you need an evse and I have not got a straight answer about just being able to plug into 120 volts and use my kil a watt meter.

[Specter]

If they are being that shady and evasive about the thing, do you really want to go down THAT path?
price out the door.... out my ass!!  trust me they'll tack on an extra k or three and then give you some mealy mouth bullshit, oh well there's dest fees, prep fees, deal this fee, origin charge, dmv, taxes, disposal fee. bla bla bla bla and the 800 that we put on every vehicle we sell.

Don't trust that.
aaron

[Fran K]

It is not that bad here is the actual bike on their website.  There is another one black for $500 more both with one mile new not demo bikes.

https://www.allseasonsatvparkersburg.com/Motorcycles-Can-Am-Origin-2025-Mineral-Wells-WV-3c490713-749f-48cc-b95b-b2b80101ec48

And the 73 variant for more than these.  I am not interested in the Pulse version just the Origion.  They have what seems to me an extremely small front drive sprocket inside that chain case, only place to attach cargo kind of notches near the rear of the seat and no framework for passenger pegs.

It was really shocking this spring the place that wanted 17,2 otd had a BMW R9t like 5k miles soft saddle bags roll over protection bars, just a fraction of the fees on used.  I forget the specifics it was about half the price.

[Fran K]

So I actually tried to buy one of these things this morning.  Got there about 10:15 by 11:45 the deal was 10k for the bike, 400 for deliery or freight and 200 doc fee, 12 dollars wv sales tax on the doc fee, they put it on my pick up and I get the certificate of origin in hand,  I write the check and they call the bank to make sure it is good.  I think there was a set up fee they don't print just show a screen  Wv is pretty good they don't sales tax you on all the fees.  I left about 1 pm.

They wheel it over to the service dept for some final inspection, oh come over here we need discuss something, wait for bobcat parts and kawasaki parts to be sold and then there is a recall.  There is a vent for the battery that is held on with 3 bolts or machine screws, can't have it as is we will happily deliver it to your WV address when we get the part and install it.  There are at least 5 of these things 2 black origions, one whites, one 73 accesorized one and a pulse that sits a lot lower, maybe even another one not sure.  But the promotion runs out oct 31 fill out more stuff to lock the deal in.  I asked for my check back they obliged.  They did throw in the charging cable thing for 120 volts which was in the cab of my pick up I might have drove off with but did walk in and gave back.

This is pretty good,  They have the 5 of them all 2025 models, the 2026 list for one thousand dollars more same thing same cells in the battery and because they are a Can Am dealer they have to take some 2026 models but it is unlikely they will discount the ones they have any more.

[Fran K]

Ok so is there going to be a Can Am section?  BRP Bombarider recreational group or somthing close to that.   They called me up I think Tuesday saying they had got in the recall parts.  When the Kawasaki hybrid was on recall they put them in the back but I guess these guys did not even know it.  Kind of small change lots of side by sides for 25k or so one 250 hp one he says is 50k.  They gave me a mini tank bag and the level one device.  I have the passenger seat and footpegs on order now.  I am 180 or 190 or so so my passenger should not be much over 150, it does give hand holds foot pegs and a seat greatly increasing places to tie stuff on.  I never had a scooter with the motor or engine on the swingarm. I am having a problem with some pictures.

[Fran K]

This thing is great.  Traction control and active regeneration when twisting the throttle backwards.  It is going to be a while until I pay the sales tax and get a plate for it, so the usage is being used just like the KTM electric freeride.  Private property and back roads with no stripe in the middle.

I do not want it any heavier, but the battery capacity isn't computing out like claimed.  The kil a watt meter isn't calibrated and this is the second one but 23 to 66% took 3.32 kwh yielding 7.72 for 100% not 8.9kwh.  Add to that the manual says if you run it all the way down you might not be able to charge it at all.  The KTM and seems from reading on here Energica is similar every 20 times run it down  until it won't go any more.  And I turn it off and then on a few times go even more without any issue recharging.

I am trying to add a picture but either the site or the internet connection is less than ideal

[Specter]

Running a battery down until it won't go anymore then recharging really is not good for it.   I can see IF you have some really awful problem with it, but being close to zero without pounding it and kicking it into the ground, should be plenty for a a bms to retune itself.

i do not recall the energica's wanting you to run them to zero to recalibrate.  typically topping them off can reset them, and if it won't hit 100 percent a few 'restarts' of the charge cycle should walk you up to the full charge point.  Again, id not recommend running it, or any battery really, down to zero, and especially pushing it to it does a safety shutdown, then restarting.  THAT is why it wont charge anymore, you pushed the voltage so low, the pile crashed and it's too low for the bms to let it back online.

This may sound goofy but if you do manage to brick a battery that bad, sometimes what might save it a bit w/o tearing it open is.  IF you can get the bike to turn on at all, or any connectivity to the battery,  do a manual regen,  heft it up on chocks or whatnot and spin the wheel to gen some power back into it, could be just enough to get the voltage to come up just enough to wake up the bms to let you charge it normally.  I have to do that to my lawn mower sometimes, the regen puts just enough power into it to charge up the bms to wake the bastard back up when it's tripped out hard.  it might work for a bike too but no guarantees.

aaron

[princec]

AIUI any BMS worth its weight prevents you from actually running a battery down to a point where it sustains irreversible damage. But you can leave them alone for so long that they discharge to this level.

Surely Can-Am's BMS doesn't actually let you destroy the battery deliberately?

Cas

[Fran K]

So I got the passenger kit, seat pegs,and hand holds.  Kind of small picture for the kb size.  I see made in Canada on the push locking piece no other markings on any of the stuff.  I see made in Mexico on the inner fender under the seat.  Made in Vietnam on the 12 volt battery, the tires are made in Indonesia.

Thley have on the showroom floor an Outlander Electric ATV using a bunch of the same components, there was a snowmobile first.  They keep 5 years on the battery but cut the rest back to one year.  Towing capacity 1830 pounds 830 kg.  875 pounds base model so it can be considered a motorcycle for some trail access, and I am pretty sure falls in some classification like has been welcomed by the American motorcyclist association if any folks on here might have been aware of that orginization and whether or not to encompass quads or whatever name of the day that iis being used.

Had an assistant hold the bike while I tried out the passenger perch.  It seems set up for a operator with quite wide hips.  The hand holds are about right to keep the butt from skiding rearward with the wrist being the contact area.  I took the pegs off after the photo.  They do stick out a lot, kind of have to on the swingarm drive side.

[Fran K]

Had to tie a load to it just to see.  If one gets the saddlebag option, there is a bracket that attaches to the bottom of the pipe I used one mount point for an anchor.  If you can't figure out what my avatar is this is a clue the dog licks the ankle contact area of this one as well as the Ktm.

Looks like I have privileges to modify my posts for a while.

All the passenger parts wieghed on the bathroom scale 7 and a half pounds and the footpeg pieces about half that.  I got the scale out on concrete pad, put block and ramps to get on the scale with one wheel at a time the other one level this is with hallf the passenger kit.  Front 198 pounds rear 218 pounds.  Wheel exactly in the same spot on the scale so minimal error on the relative measurment probably some uncertainty on the absolute numbers.  47.6% front  52.4% rear.

[Specter]

princ, when you run a battery down to the basement like that, it doesn't have much energy / energy density left in it anymore.  Yes it may cut it off at say 48 volts to keep you from damaging it, but at 48 volts, that battery may only have 1 percent capacity left in it.  So now that 10 watts the bms uses to watchdog it, is draining the thing quick.  At 50 percent, the bms load may take a week to drop you 1 percent.  at 1 percent it can drop you a percent in a day or so, until you are now at 45 volts, and dumping fast.  It's easy to harm batteries by leaving them empty like that,
and if you have one of the 'self heating'types, those can cause real bad issues when it's not monitored properly or worse, the low voltage is making the control malfunction on you, and the fucker kicks in that heater at 45 volts.  now you are at 8 volts and hoping you can hot shot it with a lead acid emergency start pack, or an old fashioned charger that's a xformer, recitfier, and capictor on it that will still turn on at obscenely low voltages.

just saying, please be careful when you are playing around that low.
aaron

[princec]

Yes, I am familiar with the technology I was just curious as to what Can-Am have implemented here because it seems a bit ... er ... of an "enthusiast's" take on battery treatment or have I read it wrong?

Cas

[Fran K]

The quad/ATV Can am electric outlander does mention heating the battery in their literature where the motorcycle does not mention any such thing.  The guys on the outdoor power equipment have threads about reviving dead batteries or hibernating batteries.  Some if not most are expired. 



I found a video   Around minute 2:20 he says 350 volt battery developed in sounds like Valpour I guess somewhere in Canada for the development anyway.  Like the Stark 2170 cells 100 in series and 4 in parallel?

Got my Ct license plate. 

Can am help showed me where to go to get the exploded parts diagrams and it seems the service manuals will be up for sale soon.  I looked up a rock crawining atv or side by side and such document cost about $25.  The first reduction is helical gear with 24 teeth on the motor and the second chain, not a normal roller chain has a rear count of  40 but the double gear that does the real reduction isn't called out for teeth count.

Says 27.0 SAE hp on the certificate of origin.  The KTM 2023 freeride e-xc which is not  manufactured for use on streets roads etc shows 9.15 kw in the gvwr spot which is 12.3 hp. If the dealer registers the vehicle the new owner does not see the certificate of origin, imo.  Origin  Origin coincidence?


Nov 26 edit:   Looking for and finding rake differences between pulse and origin.  The part that bolts to the battery module is the same so the rake differences must be the fork length, wheel diameter which differs 4.7", and how the axle is located at the bottom of the fork.  I noticed in the manual the reduction gearing is listed.  23/129 and 21/40.   I come up with 33.3 mph where the torque drops off.  26" wheel diameter from Dunlop.  4600rpm.