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[ElectricRebel]

Sooo,

 after fumbling around quite a bit I MIGHT have solved the DC-Charge-Initializing errors/faults that some/many have reported, at least for the EU CCS2 bikes!
The DC-Charge Port is mounted "under tension" (as seen in the picture the holes for the port don't line up).
This means the chargeport itself buckles upward, leading to the plug, especially the heavy HPC-CCS plugs, tilting/having play/wiggling inside the chargeport. ( https://youtube.com/shorts/t61-1Xm-onA )
This leads to communication errors and misalignment with the charge lock.
I've just redrilled the holes, the chargeport is now seated without the constant pressure of the misaligned bolts and I had ZERO DC-Fails after doing that (charged 4 times that day).
I don't know if this affects all bikes (does this affect the US-Bikes??), but it might help someone

Cheers!

[Specter]

it is always STRONGLY recommended that heavy CCS cables be supported while charging for this very reason.  They tend to pull down on everything due to the weight, flexing the socket, and causing stuff to misalign and a switch to flip,giving an error etc.

This is further exasperated  when it's cold out, cables are stiff, and you are forcing wiggling stuff around trying to get the damned thing to seat down all the way to hit the switches to begin with.  All that forcing and wiggling is eventually just going to make things loose, bend things, and yes, eventually break things.

It sounds like you found a temporary fix to at least solve a bit of the alignment problem, but eventually that cable weight dragging on everything is going to take it's toll.   Id figure a way, even if you loop it around a seat, a back loop using the handle bar to somewhat support it, if there is something above you, (like a canopy at the track) ANYtthing you can do to keep that entire cable weight from just hanging off the plug, pulling it down towards the ground, which is where the rest of the cable is probably hanging at, as it heads back to the charger.

I really wish the EVA / EGO had a side charger like the Experia has, that way you can make like a hook to hold the cable up, or at least the bend is not this un natural pulling wanting to twist the head downwards and torque the socket.  You could even lay the cable across the seat and it wouldn't be at some goofy ass angle prohibiting plugging it in.

Good job there, but do be ware that if there is any weight dragging on that head, it will sooner or later cause you issues.  Ive got over 2k miles on my track bike now which is probably 200 to 300 plug ins and unplugs with a heavy ass CCS 1 cable capable of 150 amps.  Trust me, I have experience with this crap and having to deal with failed charge starts, timeouts, and reboots to clear the fkn faults so the shit starts talking to each other again after xx many faults due to a stupid switch you have NO indication if it truly DID make or not THIS TIME.   

Aaron

[jotjotde]

Thanks a lot for providing that info! Do you happen to have more pictures available? Might come handy if someone wants to attempt the same you did.

I agree with Aaron's strategy especially with heavy cables. Support the cable in a way that the plug does not put a load on the socket. Insert the plug smoothly in one go into the socket without any angle, so all pins connect at the same time. Press down and hold until after approx. 10 seconds the arrestor pin comes up. Slowly release your grip from plug and cable.

If possible, I charge at a low-power station (22-50 kW) bc the cables are thin and lightweight.

[ElectricRebel]

Thanks a lot for providing that info! Do you happen to have more pictures available? Might come handy if someone wants to attempt the same you did.

I agree with Aaron's strategy especially with heavy cables. Support the cable in a way that the plug does not put a load on the socket. Insert the plug smoothly in one go into the socket without any angle, so all pins connect at the same time. Press down and hold until after approx. 10 seconds the arrestor pin comes up. Slowly release your grip from plug and cable.

If possible, I charge at a low-power station (22-50 kW) bc the cables are thin and lightweight.

Yes, I could provide some more pictures when I'm home from vacation.
But you could also look at it personally (we've met several times in Soest at the Aral Supercharger station/BK). I do still support the cable during initiation, but since I did this I had zero problems. Before that I had problems, charges didn't start, or charging progressed only at like 5 kW. Since then, no problem at all 😁😁

[jotjotde]

Oh, hi! Didn't recognize you 

Then I will have a look at it when we meet next time charging or at the Taucherbucht.
Ride safe!

[EVriderDK]

Sooo,

 after fumbling around quite a bit I MIGHT have solved the DC-Charge-Initializing errors/faults that some/many have reported, at least for the EU CCS2 bikes!
The DC-Charge Port is mounted "under tension" (as seen in the picture the holes for the port don't line up).
This means the chargeport itself buckles upward, leading to the plug, especially the heavy HPC-CCS plugs, tilting/having play/wiggling inside the chargeport. ( https://youtube.com/shorts/t61-1Xm-onA )
This leads to communication errors and misalignment with the charge lock.
I've just redrilled the holes, the chargeport is now seated without the constant pressure of the misaligned bolts and I had ZERO DC-Fails after doing that (charged 4 times that day).
I don't know if this affects all bikes (does this affect the US-Bikes??), but it might help someone

Cheers!

I get these errors some times. There is a place near my home where 5 plugs do not work, but the 6th always works. So weird. They are 300 kW chargers.
So when you take out those to bolts, the chage socket will misalign, and then you drill new holes and fit it again? Why would that work?

[Specter]

The communication wire is low voltage, meaning the connection has to be pretty darned good, the slightest 'light touch'  or dirt or looseness and it won't talk right, either the voltage just won't get thru so it don't talk, or it could be noisy, corrupting the data flow so the communication is in error, causing errors.

By re aligning everything you are making sure everything is working AS DESIGNED to work, in other words, making sure that the pins ARE aligned correctly so they Do fit in each other properly, there IS a good connection so that the voltage gets thru and it DOES talk back and forth properly.

Because of the voltages involved in the high side, (up to a kilovolt) these fittings also must be very TIGHT, so there is no leakage or creepage of this voltage where you do not want it to be.  That means seals must be pressed tightly on each other.  If the plug is not seated exactly how it is supposed to be, the switch won't be made, saying essentially, YEP, im in good and tight, and it won't start.  This means that you literally do not have much wiggle room at all on these things, they need to be plugged in pretty exact.

Now lets take a charger that is designed for 300 amps or so, it's running probably 2 conductors of 3/0-4/0 cable and probably a #2 or bigger ground return, the thick insulation around them because of the voltage, AND extra cables for communications, which might be shielded with a wire mesh to keep noise out of them.  This stuff is HEAVY, it can be a few pounds per foot.  So you have a 5 foot loop of cable hanging off the top of your seat, arching down towards the ground, dropping 3 to 4 feet before finally actually TOUCHING the ground, where finally, there is a stress relief, because all that weight (10 to 15 lbs  4-5kg is being supported by the plug only) is just hanging there.  It's pulling sideways on the plug, which is held in place by what?? that little clip and a little slidey poo thing to lock it?  Any twisting that makes an edge of that plug lift off the seat, and viola, you are no longer sealed, the switch is opened and the charge won't start.

Re drilling the holes, you are aligning the thing better, so the force is not as bad trying to unseat the plug, and it's got a better chance of staying pluggin in all the say and charging.

Those other chargers that don't work, do me a favor if you can please.  Next time you go there, try draping the charging cable over your handle bar, so the handle is supporting the cable's weight, so it's more across the handle bar, and running up the cable instead of just the cable plugged in and all that weight just dragging and bending it to the ground.    When plugging the cable in try to hold it up over the hole, hold the actual cable about 8 inches to a foot from the plug while you plug it straight down into the plug, keeping any side or twisting motion off it, (sometimes ill drape the cable over my shoulder for the plug in to support it during the initial plug in)  once it's plugged in, give it that quick wiggle to hear the clickclick so you know it's seated and the switches made, and then gently drape the cable so it's being supported more laterally across the handle bar.  See if this might help actually start your charging session because the plug is aligned properly, and talking now.

At the track, especially when it's cold out and the cable is stiff as shit, (racing when it's 28 degrees out is NOT fun on a few levels !!) ill have to try sometimes 3 or 4 times to get it to finally engage properly and start, and it's all because it's NOT fully seated FLUSH face to face on the plug face.

ANY thing you can do to align the plug better, and take the strain of the cable weight OFF the plug head and charge port will make charging a lot easier and a lot more probability to not give you an error when starting the charge.

In a perfect workd,  Energica gets bought by a competent owner, and in the future we see some sort of software upgrade where on the dash, a little light or icon or something lights up to tell you YES or NO if that stupid switch is made or not so you can tell if it's seated good or not.


Aaron

[ElectricRebel]

The communication wire is low voltage, meaning the connection has to be pretty darned good, the slightest 'light touch'  or dirt or looseness and it won't talk right, either the voltage just won't get thru so it don't talk, or it could be noisy, corrupting the data flow so the communication is in error, causing errors.

By re aligning everything you are making sure everything is working AS DESIGNED to work, in other words, making sure that the pins ARE aligned correctly so they Do fit in each other properly, there IS a good connection so that the voltage gets thru and it DOES talk back and forth properly.

Because of the voltages involved in the high side, (up to a kilovolt) these fittings also must be very TIGHT, so there is no leakage or creepage of this voltage where you do not want it to be.  That means seals must be pressed tightly on each other.  If the plug is not seated exactly how it is supposed to be, the switch won't be made, saying essentially, YEP, im in good and tight, and it won't start.  This means that you literally do not have much wiggle room at all on these things, they need to be plugged in pretty exact.

Now lets take a charger that is designed for 300 amps or so, it's running probably 2 conductors of 3/0-4/0 cable and probably a #2 or bigger ground return, the thick insulation around them because of the voltage, AND extra cables for communications, which might be shielded with a wire mesh to keep noise out of them.  This stuff is HEAVY, it can be a few pounds per foot.  So you have a 5 foot loop of cable hanging off the top of your seat, arching down towards the ground, dropping 3 to 4 feet before finally actually TOUCHING the ground, where finally, there is a stress relief, because all that weight (10 to 15 lbs  4-5kg is being supported by the plug only) is just hanging there.  It's pulling sideways on the plug, which is held in place by what?? that little clip and a little slidey poo thing to lock it?  Any twisting that makes an edge of that plug lift off the seat, and viola, you are no longer sealed, the switch is opened and the charge won't start.

Re drilling the holes, you are aligning the thing better, so the force is not as bad trying to unseat the plug, and it's got a better chance of staying pluggin in all the say and charging.

Those other chargers that don't work, do me a favor if you can please.  Next time you go there, try draping the charging cable over your handle bar, so the handle is supporting the cable's weight, so it's more across the handle bar, and running up the cable instead of just the cable plugged in and all that weight just dragging and bending it to the ground.    When plugging the cable in try to hold it up over the hole, hold the actual cable about 8 inches to a foot from the plug while you plug it straight down into the plug, keeping any side or twisting motion off it, (sometimes ill drape the cable over my shoulder for the plug in to support it during the initial plug in)  once it's plugged in, give it that quick wiggle to hear the clickclick so you know it's seated and the switches made, and then gently drape the cable so it's being supported more laterally across the handle bar.  See if this might help actually start your charging session because the plug is aligned properly, and talking now.

At the track, especially when it's cold out and the cable is stiff as shit, (racing when it's 28 degrees out is NOT fun on a few levels !!) ill have to try sometimes 3 or 4 times to get it to finally engage properly and start, and it's all because it's NOT fully seated FLUSH face to face on the plug face.

ANY thing you can do to align the plug better, and take the strain of the cable weight OFF the plug head and charge port will make charging a lot easier and a lot more probability to not give you an error when starting the charge.

In a perfect workd,  Energica gets bought by a competent owner, and in the future we see some sort of software upgrade where on the dash, a little light or icon or something lights up to tell you YES or NO if that stupid switch is made or not so you can tell if it's seated good or not.


Aaron

Hi Aaron,

i've also written with Phoenix contact themselves, the manufacturer of the charge inlet.
They know of this problem, and they call it "CP-Lost", basically the CP Signal is lost due to the heavy cable and the quite unfortunate position of the charge inlet (Horizontal instead of vertical).
We have to see what the future holds for us. If the company wont get sold as a whole, thats it. If my bike gets bricked i'll find a way around to keep it driveable for sure...

I do still support the cable (Attachment), but since I did that I got zero Problems with DC charging so far.

[EVriderDK]

The communication wire is low voltage, meaning the connection has to be pretty darned good, the slightest 'light touch'  or dirt or looseness and it won't talk right, either the voltage just won't get thru so it don't talk, or it could be noisy, corrupting the data flow so the communication is in error, causing errors.

By re aligning everything you are making sure everything is working AS DESIGNED to work, in other words, making sure that the pins ARE aligned correctly so they Do fit in each other properly, there IS a good connection so that the voltage gets thru and it DOES talk back and forth properly.

Because of the voltages involved in the high side, (up to a kilovolt) these fittings also must be very TIGHT, so there is no leakage or creepage of this voltage where you do not want it to be.  That means seals must be pressed tightly on each other.  If the plug is not seated exactly how it is supposed to be, the switch won't be made, saying essentially, YEP, im in good and tight, and it won't start.  This means that you literally do not have much wiggle room at all on these things, they need to be plugged in pretty exact.

Now lets take a charger that is designed for 300 amps or so, it's running probably 2 conductors of 3/0-4/0 cable and probably a #2 or bigger ground return, the thick insulation around them because of the voltage, AND extra cables for communications, which might be shielded with a wire mesh to keep noise out of them.  This stuff is HEAVY, it can be a few pounds per foot.  So you have a 5 foot loop of cable hanging off the top of your seat, arching down towards the ground, dropping 3 to 4 feet before finally actually TOUCHING the ground, where finally, there is a stress relief, because all that weight (10 to 15 lbs  4-5kg is being supported by the plug only) is just hanging there.  It's pulling sideways on the plug, which is held in place by what?? that little clip and a little slidey poo thing to lock it?  Any twisting that makes an edge of that plug lift off the seat, and viola, you are no longer sealed, the switch is opened and the charge won't start.

Re drilling the holes, you are aligning the thing better, so the force is not as bad trying to unseat the plug, and it's got a better chance of staying pluggin in all the say and charging.

Those other chargers that don't work, do me a favor if you can please.  Next time you go there, try draping the charging cable over your handle bar, so the handle is supporting the cable's weight, so it's more across the handle bar, and running up the cable instead of just the cable plugged in and all that weight just dragging and bending it to the ground.    When plugging the cable in try to hold it up over the hole, hold the actual cable about 8 inches to a foot from the plug while you plug it straight down into the plug, keeping any side or twisting motion off it, (sometimes ill drape the cable over my shoulder for the plug in to support it during the initial plug in)  once it's plugged in, give it that quick wiggle to hear the clickclick so you know it's seated and the switches made, and then gently drape the cable so it's being supported more laterally across the handle bar.  See if this might help actually start your charging session because the plug is aligned properly, and talking now.

At the track, especially when it's cold out and the cable is stiff as shit, (racing when it's 28 degrees out is NOT fun on a few levels !!) ill have to try sometimes 3 or 4 times to get it to finally engage properly and start, and it's all because it's NOT fully seated FLUSH face to face on the plug face.

ANY thing you can do to align the plug better, and take the strain of the cable weight OFF the plug head and charge port will make charging a lot easier and a lot more probability to not give you an error when starting the charge.

In a perfect workd,  Energica gets bought by a competent owner, and in the future we see some sort of software upgrade where on the dash, a little light or icon or something lights up to tell you YES or NO if that stupid switch is made or not so you can tell if it's seated good or not.


Aaron

I would forget all about communication and pins not reaching. This is not the issue. The issue is that the locking pin can't get through, probably because of cable pressure. Check what ElectricRebel is writing.
The communication on the DC stations are power line communication, so it uses the actual power conductor to communicate, and it also uses CC and CP.
Did you know that this is how communication between power stations work? This way you can send signals and call each other etc. through the 400kV power lines

[Specter]

the power stations cant talk thru a transforner  for crit infra we use pots lines in many instances  0 cross comms can be tempermental and low baud the corona can disrupt it'

aaron