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[Specter]

Even isolating the bike from ground, the bike itself is a return point.    Even then, you have + and - on the board, so while you may not take a heart shot of DC it'll still burn a nice little hole in your finger if you come across it wrong.  Not to mention a DC arc just grows and GROWS, it does not self extinguish 50/60 times a second like ac will.  I used to have to work on 130 vdc live at times and that shit will just creep everywhere, especially if it's a humid day. It will also reach out and touch you if it can and It'll hold you too, it won't shake or throw you like AC can.   Another thing that can be helpful is wrap your tools in electrical tape except for the very end that is being used, like a screwdriver, wrap it all the way to the very tip that goes into the screw head, that way if something does accidentally touch, it's insulated.

Aaron

[FlyMig]

Yikes, I've been shocked before.  No pleasant at all haha

[EVriderDK]

Even isolating the bike from ground, the bike itself is a return point.    Even then, you have + and - on the board, so while you may not take a heart shot of DC it'll still burn a nice little hole in your finger if you come across it wrong.  Not to mention a DC arc just grows and GROWS, it does not self extinguish 50/60 times a second like ac will.  I used to have to work on 130 vdc live at times and that shit will just creep everywhere, especially if it's a humid day. It will also reach out and touch you if it can and It'll hold you too, it won't shake or throw you like AC can.   Another thing that can be helpful is wrap your tools in electrical tape except for the very end that is being used, like a screwdriver, wrap it all the way to the very tip that goes into the screw head, that way if something does accidentally touch, it's insulated.

Aaron

I did make a video of how I did it, but I am not sure if I want to release it, because it is dangerous stuff.
But basically I use electrical cloves and isolated tools, yes. I wont get shocked.
But isolating the bike from the ground is a very good idea.

Also, if you touch the positive with your right hand and touch the frame with your head or left arm, then your could get pretty fked !

[DonTom]

Also, if you touch the positive with your right hand and touch the frame with your head or left arm, then your could get pretty fked !

Is the frame grounded?  I think EVs normally use floating grounds to prevent such.


IIRC, even the Zero's 12-volt system is a floating ground.



-Don-  Auburn, CA

[ElectricRebel]

Even isolating the bike from ground, the bike itself is a return point.    Even then, you have + and - on the board, so while you may not take a heart shot of DC it'll still burn a nice little hole in your finger if you come across it wrong.  Not to mention a DC arc just grows and GROWS, it does not self extinguish 50/60 times a second like ac will.  I used to have to work on 130 vdc live at times and that shit will just creep everywhere, especially if it's a humid day. It will also reach out and touch you if it can and It'll hold you too, it won't shake or throw you like AC can.   Another thing that can be helpful is wrap your tools in electrical tape except for the very end that is being used, like a screwdriver, wrap it all the way to the very tip that goes into the screw head, that way if something does accidentally touch, it's insulated.

Aaron

Hi,

no it isn't. HV Systems are Isolated to every part of the bike. The only parts that have voltage on it are the HV Cables, Cells etc.
HV Voltage is NOT conducted back to the frame (except you have an isolation fault). There shouldn't be, and in normal operation there isn't any potential on the frame, battery housing etc. (only a few tenths of volts from capacitive loading). If you touch both potentials, yes you'll get lightend up pretty darn bright, but touching one potential and the Frame, Battery housing won't do any harm (But i wouldn't do it either or advise someone doing this, when working on active Batteries you have to wear at least 318kj arc proof gear), because there are at least 200.000 Ohms of isolation resistance between you and the potential (500 ohms/V; Energicas are above 300V)

[EVriderDK]

Even isolating the bike from ground, the bike itself is a return point.    Even then, you have + and - on the board, so while you may not take a heart shot of DC it'll still burn a nice little hole in your finger if you come across it wrong.  Not to mention a DC arc just grows and GROWS, it does not self extinguish 50/60 times a second like ac will.  I used to have to work on 130 vdc live at times and that shit will just creep everywhere, especially if it's a humid day. It will also reach out and touch you if it can and It'll hold you too, it won't shake or throw you like AC can.   Another thing that can be helpful is wrap your tools in electrical tape except for the very end that is being used, like a screwdriver, wrap it all the way to the very tip that goes into the screw head, that way if something does accidentally touch, it's insulated.

Aaron

Hi,

no it isn't. HV Systems are Isolated to every part of the bike. The only parts that have voltage on it are the HV Cables, Cells etc.
HV Voltage is NOT conducted back to the frame (except you have an isolation fault). There shouldn't be, and in normal operation there isn't any potential on the frame, battery housing etc. (only a few tenths of volts from capacitive loading). If you touch both potentials, yes you'll get lightend up pretty darn bright, but touching one potential and the Frame, Battery housing won't do any harm (But i wouldn't do it either or advise someone doing this, when working on active Batteries you have to wear at least 318kj arc proof gear), because there are at least 200.000 Ohms of isolation resistance between you and the potential (500 ohms/V; Energicas are above 300V)

This is the issue. If you have an isolation fault, you could get electrocuted from touching just plus or minus, depending on which is touching the frame. Since something is wrong with my bike, there could be some isolation or grounding problem. I would never risk it.
Isolating the bike from the ground means that I will not get electrocuted from JUST touching plus or minus, if there is an isolation fault. - I would have to touch the frame too.
No reason for not isolating the bike.
If something on the PSU or other device is burnt or broken, there could very well be an isolation fault. The isolation fault could happen on the PCBs themselves.

The short circuit level is very very low where I am working, so I don't use arc protective gear. Only goggles and gloves.

I would wear arc protective clothing if I were to connect/disconnect the busbar for example, even though the operation from pictures seems, unless there is an isolation fault. If one touches the busbar coupler with a screwdriver, and the frame at the same time, when there is an isolation fault, you have fireworks.

Anyways. I found a new PSU online, and I am going to plug it in next week. Wish me luck

[Motoproponent]

How did it go? did the new PSU fix the issue?

[Ingineer]

I'm an electrical engineer, I might be able to assist with a board-level repair if you can't figure it out.   We need to keep these awesome bikes on the road as long as we can!

[smithy]

I'm an electrical engineer, I might be able to assist with a board-level repair if you can't figure it out.   We need to keep these awesome bikes on the road as long as we can!

That would be a great resource for us....thank you for the offer.

Smithy.

[Specter]

it's been a few years since ive done board level repairs, and 3m / smt stuff, well.  just  ick.   tooth picks looking like tree trunks under a microscope and the wire you are trying to land/seat still looks hair thin... i do not miss those days at all.

the only problem i forsee is,  easy stuff to fix, is generally not what breaks.  it's the logic boards and hair think,crammed next to each other crap that goes out, and if it's any kind of programming in it.. yah that part too.  psu should be easy, as most that is general and fairly large but if you are getting into logic boards and stuff. well.. good luck

measles? no problem !! that's why we butter coat. 

aaron

[Ingineer]

Power supplies are under high stress, so they are some of the most common failures in electronic systems.   They are also usually the simplest circuitry.  I don't think it would be any problem.   From the the video EVriderDK posted, it does not appear there is any intelligence or code running on that PCB, so it would be relatively easy to reverse-engineer.

The more information we have the better, I doubt we'd ever locate a board-level schematic, but even just having the wiring diagrams is useful.   

Also: I'm looking for the wiring for my 2023 SS9+, which has the Italian motor controller and keyless start.   Anyone?

[Stonewolf]

On the subject of PSU repairs, EEMC has been working with a Dutch company to repair bricked ones in the absence of official support and sent me an email today informing me that they've finally cracked it and are sending all the units they have in off for repair.

[EVriderDK]

On the subject of PSU repairs, EEMC has been working with a Dutch company to repair bricked ones in the absence of official support and sent me an email today informing me that they've finally cracked it and are sending all the units they have in off for repair.

I know a guy in Austria who fixed two PSUs of mine.

My bike is working again