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[EVriderDK]

Hi all

*FINAL UPDATE* I got the PSU fixed. The issues was the DCDC converter it self. It was replaced with a new one of the same type that was very difficult to source. Another spare PSU of mine was also fixed where the DCDC converter had burnt because they forgot to remove the backing of the thermal tape before installing and there was a transformer that was loose. Finally, my bike is alive and well
It was fixed by a clever Enginer in Austria

*UPDATE: The PSU on my bike indeed of the new type, and it makes it difficult to go in an measure the 12V output, because it has plugs that I cannot reach. If I could just measure it, I could limit my investigation quite a bit. I can't see anything wrong, and I tried wiggling it etc. but nothing happens. I tried wiggling all plugs and wires on the bike. Last thing to checks is inside of the bellypan I guess Kind of a large operation.
Video: https://youtu.be/l9SFY4AjxsA?si=iaxN-QJimHVAhKzE

My 12V is unstable.
Every 100 km. or so, the 12V switches off for 1 second and switches back on. I have measured it as well.
As the 12V comes from the DC-DC converter(PSU), I guess this is the culpit. I also measured if the 9V loses it's power, and it does not. I tried pulling all the external wires while the bike is on, and nothing happens, so I expect and internal problem.
It seems like it does not happen while the main contactor off, and when it is charging. It only happens when I am riding and it also happened in reverse mode once. Sometimes it happens just seconds after starting the ride, and sometimes I can go 100 km. before the 12V drops. No issues while charging.
Video: https://youtu.be/zKvS3TLjDww?si=nCuZ2NSeuLErjoKz at 0:26 you can see the USB LED and everything switching off briefly.



Apparently there is a new PSU for the Energica, called "PSU Eleven" with connectors and plugs instead of soldered wires. I also have the instructions for replacing the old one with the new one and opening up the battery etc. However, I do not have the new PSU.

1. Anyone who have had the same issue, and knows what the actual problem is?
2. Anyone who can get me a new PSU?
3. Anyone who knows any dealers with Energica super nerds employed, who I might be able to contact?
4. Could the old PSU be repaired? I know that some electronics workshop in the Netherlands have tried, but failed.

I want to go riding this year!

Thanks a bunch
- I am located in Denmark, in Europe.

[Pard]

@Demoni here on the forum is the Service Manager at Energica USA. 

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=8405

He is the man to talk to.

[EVriderDK]

@Demoni here on the forum is the Service Manager at Energica USA. 

https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=profile;u=8405

He is the man to talk to.

Thanks a lot. I wrote him

[Stonewolf]

The PSU is turning out to be a common failure point sadly, I was talking to EEMC today and they now have several bikes in the shop waiting to see if they can be repaired. They've been working with a third party to try and fix the problem since parts availability is basicly nil but this is up against the problem that components can also be difficult to source and while the company is in administration stuff like circuit diagrams are unavailable.

[EVriderDK]

The PSU is turning out to be a common failure point sadly, I was talking to EEMC today and they now have several bikes in the shop waiting to see if they can be repaired. They've been working with a third party to try and fix the problem since parts availability is basicly nil but this is up against the problem that components can also be difficult to source and while the company is in administration stuff like circuit diagrams are unavailable.

Hi Stonewolf

I heard about it

Do you have any information about whether my problem is a common PSU issue? I feel like it is more likely to happen after hitting a small bump or something.

[Stonewolf]

The PSU is turning out to be a common failure point sadly, I was talking to EEMC today and they now have several bikes in the shop waiting to see if they can be repaired. They've been working with a third party to try and fix the problem since parts availability is basicly nil but this is up against the problem that components can also be difficult to source and while the company is in administration stuff like circuit diagrams are unavailable.

Hi Stonewolf

I heard about it

Do you have any information about whether my problem is a common PSU issue? I feel like it is more likely to happen after hitting a small bump or something.

I think you might have a different problem, PSU failures seem to more commonly happen while the bike is turned off. If you feel mechanically competent to remove the unit you could maybe inspect it or have it inspected to see if the failure can be diagnosed but without access to circuit diagrams that's going to be pretty difficult.

[Pard]

It would be nice if someone could develop a 12v power supply, I.E. Battery, to replace the psu.  The way Livewire has their bike configured. 

The DC/DC is a nice design option so long as we can find repair or replacement hardware if the psu fails.  12V batteries are easily replaced.

How much would it cost to hire an electrical engineer to investigate this particular problem and develop a workaround?

Maybe if Energica does finally go under after failed auction attempts, Energica USA will be free to do this type of development.

EONE you up for the task?

[Phaedrus]

The Livewire solution just adds more hardware and a reverse problem.  The LIVEWIRE OBC circuit that maintains the 12vdc is a failure point, often requiring OBC replacement, and/or 12vdc  battery charging, and 12vdc battery replacement.

Using the Livewire12vdc battery for anything more than it's intended purpose of energizing the RESS circuitry at turn on, and running core bike electronics, can add to the problem.

Personally I think the Energica solution is more elegant.

[Stonewolf]

Yeah, you actually still need a DC/DC converter even if you have a 12v battery otherwise you'll drain it.

[Pard]

Interesting.

What about a workaround of just having a 12V battery that requires external charging.  Keep it topped off with a seperate charger, Run the bike, charge when done.

Energica, batteries not included!  LOL!

Seriously, that would work in a pinch, correct?

[Pard]

Zero makes it pretty easy:

[EVriderDK]

It would be nice if someone could develop a 12v power supply, I.E. Battery, to replace the psu.  The way Livewire has their bike configured. 

The DC/DC is a nice design option so long as we can find repair or replacement hardware if the psu fails.  12V batteries are easily replaced.

How much would it cost to hire an electrical engineer to investigate this particular problem and develop a workaround?

Maybe if Energica does finally go under after failed auction attempts, Energica USA will be free to do this type of development.

EONE you up for the task?

DCDC converters that matches to specs do exist, but the problem is that we do not know exactly how the converter works. I know that it gets constant high voltage, and then when you turn the key, some voodoo magic happens. There are a lot of wires in it, and even if you add a battery to the bike, it will not work, because the power for the BMS and the circuit breakers etc. is wired to a separate part of the DCDC converter.
It is not just 300V in 12V out. If it was, we could have used something like this: https://www.cincon.com/productdetail/CFB750-300S.html - They have some different models.

The PSU is turning out to be a common failure point sadly, I was talking to EEMC today and they now have several bikes in the shop waiting to see if they can be repaired. They've been working with a third party to try and fix the problem since parts availability is basicly nil but this is up against the problem that components can also be difficult to source and while the company is in administration stuff like circuit diagrams are unavailable.

Hi Stonewolf

I heard about it

Do you have any information about whether my problem is a common PSU issue? I feel like it is more likely to happen after hitting a small bump or something.

I think you might have a different problem, PSU failures seem to more commonly happen while the bike is turned off. If you feel mechanically competent to remove the unit you could maybe inspect it or have it inspected to see if the failure can be diagnosed but without access to circuit diagrams that's going to be pretty difficult.

Okay? Hmm.. Could there really be some loose wire somewhere? Damn..
If I had a workshop I would open everything and check.
It happened after my battery was changed, so it is 99% a problem in the battery. Some bad soldering or a loose connection.
I also know that they move the earthing point when changing to the new PSU, but for what reason?

[Specter]

Check wiring, wiggle everything make sure it's tight, especially if it's only happening when you hit a bump.  That sounds like something loose getting jarred to disconnect.  Don't think it'd be on the MB as those are potted in that arent they?

FWIW, no, it's a LOT more than just 330 in 12 out, there are a lot of safety items in there as well.  What happens when something decides to btfu, now that 300 volts is on your chassis?  yah that....  what happens when you get water in one of your lights and it shorts out, are you going to lose your entire 12 volt bus and the cpu because of a light socket?  no, better isolate that... those type of things...given the 12 volt can power a LOT of shit, ie the handwarmers etc it can take several amps, not just flea power for the cpu, using a battery may not last long at all.  The lights are 12 volt as well, so there's more amps.  You'd need at least a 30 amp hour battery to provide for a one charge trip, that's a lot of extra weight.

This is the first I heard of the power supplies being an issue, can you link where you seen that, Id like to learn more about it.

Aaron

[flynnstig82r]

I never had a fault with the one on my 2020 SS9 13.4, but the design made it incompatible with heated gear. It outputs 12v flat instead of 13.5 or 13.8, so the heated gear controller thinks it’s killing the battery and turns itself off. I was planning to install a boost converter to bring voltage up to a steady 13.8, but never got around to it.

[DonTom]

I never had a fault with the one on my 2020 SS9 13.4, but the design made it incompatible with heated gear. It outputs 12v flat instead of 13.5 or 13.8, so the heated gear controller thinks it’s killing the battery and turns itself off. I was planning to install a boost converter to bring voltage up to a steady 13.8, but never got around to it.

Something like this will do the trick, adjustable, if you have the room for it:


Input voltage range: 8-17 Output Voltage adjust range: 10-15V Continuous output current at nominal output voltage: 18 Amps Max output current at nominal output voltage: 25 Amps

-Don- Auburn, CA