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Author Topic: Battery, Cells and Cooling  (Read 3650 times)

ElectricRebel

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Battery, Cells and Cooling
« on: February 01, 2025, 06:05:52 PM »

Hello, I just want to share some knowledge I acquired in the past few months.
The old 13,4 kWh Pack used 160 EIG e-PLB C020 20Ah cells.
They are arranged in 4 packs of 40 cells, mounted upright directly on the heatsink plates at the cooling channel in the middle of the battery. The BMS-boards are Mounted on the ends of these stacks. 2 of those stacks are above each other in either side if the battery casing. Cell swelling could cause problems with this layout, as it would press on the BMS boards and bend them, leading to cracks and other issues.

The 21,5kWh battery has a different layout . Cells are arranged very differently, and it's unknown which cells they used.
The cells are lying on their long sides in an upright position. It are unidirectional pouch cells with the cell tabs being on the left side of the battery pack. The 4 BMS boards are located here as well. There are 3 rows of cells from top to bottom. What's in the right side behind the cover I don't know yet, but I suppose there's either nothing (cells are not touching the cover) or the cells MAYBE touch the right battery cover (what I don't think, even with battery temps in the high 40°C range this side doesn't heat up that much). The Batteries temperature management is seen badly implemented by many, because the batteries overheat with repeated DCFC sessions. The cells aren't touching at least 4 sites of the battery (Bottom, Left, Front and Back), which means heat can only be dissipated either by the right side or the top plate, which only touches the top row of cells.

 I think they MIGHT'VE used Farasis P32 cells, they are 230x160x6mm, which means they could easily fit 3 rows above each other with the "floors" the stacks are resting on in the roughly 50-51 cm height of the battery above the bottom pan. And that would explain the lower 17 kWh net that many here are getting better (they are rated at 33,3 Ah, which gives 19,6 kWh total, with reasonable buffer we end at ~16,5-17kWh)!
But that's only speculation.....

Greetings from Germany
Jonas
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Pard

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2025, 05:50:23 AM »

Thanks for sharing!  Good info!
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PWM

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2025, 05:10:24 AM »

Interesting insight on the battery cell configuration...

So, there's (3) Rows and (4) BMS units but the same battery count (voltage) as the 13.4kWh format, correct?

Good to know.
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ElectricRebel

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2025, 03:39:57 AM »

Interesting insight on the battery cell configuration...

So, there's (3) Rows and (4) BMS units but the same battery count (voltage) as the 13.4kWh format, correct?

Good to know.

Not quite. The 13,4 had a maximum charge voltage of ~328V. The 21,5 charges to 332/333 Volts at 100%, equaling ~4,16 V/ Cell. That's pretty high for a cell that charges to 4,2V maximum, while the Farasis P32 cell has a maximum charge voltage of 4,3V (being a high voltage cell (that's a cell with an above 4,2V max voltage)). So the cell is pretty safe at 100%, that's why I believe they used this cell or a similar one.....
« Last Edit: February 09, 2025, 05:58:44 PM by ElectricRebel »
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Demoni

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2025, 11:11:52 AM »


Not quite. The 13,4 had a maximum charge voltage of 420V. The 21,5 charges to 332/333 Volts at 100%, equaling ~4,16 V/ Cell. That's pretty high for a cell that charges to 4,2V maximum, while the Farasis P32 cell has a maximum charge voltage of 4,3V (being a high voltage cell (that's a cell with an above 4,2V max voltage)). So the cell is pretty safe at 100%, that's why I believe they used this cell or a similar one.....

I can not provide specific information about the cells used in Energica packs or the construction methods, but can give some details.

Not sure where your getting your info but what you listed as the "charge voltage" of the 13.4 is not correct. The 13.4 pack uses 4x40 cell modules wired in a 2p20s configuration. Based on a max cell voltage of 4.2 each module provides 84V (4.2*20), giving a total pack voltage of 336V (84*4).
The newer 21.5 packs have 9 modules in a 3x3 configuration providing a similar pack voltage to the 13.4. Due to the higher energy density of the cells and changes to the pack/case construction the 21.5 weights about 30lbs less than the 13.4 pack.
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ElectricRebel

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2025, 06:01:02 PM »


Not quite. The 13,4 had a maximum charge voltage of 420V. The 21,5 charges to 332/333 Volts at 100%, equaling ~4,16 V/ Cell. That's pretty high for a cell that charges to 4,2V maximum, while the Farasis P32 cell has a maximum charge voltage of 4,3V (being a high voltage cell (that's a cell with an above 4,2V max voltage)). So the cell is pretty safe at 100%, that's why I believe they used this cell or a similar one.....

I can not provide specific information about the cells used in Energica packs or the construction methods, but can give some details.

Not sure where your getting your info but what you listed as the "charge voltage" of the 13.4 is not correct. The 13.4 pack uses 4x40 cell modules wired in a 2p20s configuration. Based on a max cell voltage of 4.2 each module provides 84V (4.2*20), giving a total pack voltage of 336V (84*4).
The newer 21.5 packs have 9 modules in a 3x3 configuration providing a similar pack voltage to the 13.4. Due to the higher energy density of the cells and changes to the pack/case construction the 21.5 weights about 30lbs less than the 13.4 pack.

I assume there was a typo😜😂
Corrected it to the correct 328V the 13,4 does.
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szczur333

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2025, 11:41:26 PM »

I think 13,4 and 21,5 packs are the same voltage

21,5 has 80S pack

also what is the point to to 78 or 79s pack
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ElectricRebel

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Re: Battery, Cells and Cooling
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2025, 02:04:46 PM »

I think 13,4 and 21,5 packs are the same voltage

21,5 has 80S pack

also what is the point to to 78 or 79s pack

Both are 80S2P Packs.
The 13,4 had cells with a lower maximum voltage.
With the buffer they only charged to 4,10-4,11 Volts max.
The 21,5 Probably uses Farasis P32 Cells, they have a maximum voltage of 4,3 Volts, with the buffer it gets charged to 4,15-4,17 Volts.

I have seen pictures of Engineering screens with the 21,5 battery charged to 342V, an net energy of 18940wh, and  above 4,25V cell voltage
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