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[Specter]

So I was at the track the other day talking to a few law enforcement, showing off my bike etc.
Long story short, I was told, not sure if it's accurate or not or even doable in all 50 but, as long as there is a coach / teacher at the track on the day, it is not a 'race' really, and you are not 'racing'. 

You are learning, it is a school, with instructors and you are learning how to be a safer rider.  Control riders, instructors, coaches, all count.  As long as it is not an officially sanctioned 'race' and you are not winning any prizes / money / trophies etc, it can  be called a school.

This all leads into... what happens if I wreck on the track?  Too bad insurance won't cover your bike, and they said it does,  IF....... you are not racing, it's a school.

Has anyone else heard anything similar, or tried to claim a crash on a track with their insurance?

In all honesty, at least when I have been on the track, they stressed pretty hard, it's NOT a race, play NICE, don't be a dick, don't do dangerous shit, if you FA you will FO and be banned so you really are not lying when you tell them this, you ARE there learning how to do things correctly.

Im really curious if you could have your bike covered but this is not exactly a question you can call your insurance company and 'asking for a friend' about.

What do ya'all think or know about this?

Thanks
Aaron

[TheRan]

I'm in the UK and I would have to check my policy to check but I'm almost certain I'm only covered for on road use. Makes sense, if I was on private land I could be going any speed I wanted doing all sorts of crazy stuff, wheelies, jumps, with any number of potential hazards.

[Starpower]

I believe that this used to be true, but it seems that they have realized the higher risk and all policies I see now, including mine, say any closed course is exempt from coverage. As said at the track it is not an if but a when for a crash.
Read your policy and it will be mentioned.

[TheRan]

Had a look through my policy and found this exclusion

used at the Nurburgring or any race track or racing circuit, or used for any racing or organised
motocross, motorbike trials or scrambling

[Specter]

trials, implies racing.   Taking a track day to learn safe riding is not a track day just for fun and to go fast, one could argue.  What about taking a motorcycle safety course?  Technically one could say that is a 'track day' as well and exclude you.  The Yamaha champ school, actually has a safe rider course I believe that they do on the track.  The track is a natural place to do this kind of  learning because it's set up for it really.

I think what they are hoping on, is being able to play the fine line of, well there are instructors, I was learning how to be a better rider, to BS them, rather than tell the FULL story, I was learning how to be better.  .. at going faster.

TheRan, private land should have nothing to do with it.  Say I slam into you in a parking lot at the wally world store.  that's private, but you are also covered.  I looked at my policy and it says no racing but nothing specifically about any closed courses, and again, racing implies Sanctioned  or one may say, a prize is won.   

Also, if one is dumb enough to be racing on the road and wreck and admit what they were doing, well, yah all bets are off there too.  Pretty much every insurance of any kind says if you are doing something illegal at the time of the 'event' you are not covered.

Still about the only thing I can see where you might get away is if you got hit by someone else or FOD'd or something.   Otherwise, it's...  how did you crash.  A. I was going too fast  B. I was careless  C I was driving out of my skill range.  I don't think I'd want to admit to any of that.  Might as well get a DUI for how insurable you'd be after that admission.

I'll have to figure out a way to ask without asking on MY account 

Aaron

[Grauteufel]

In Aus, it turns out that it makes no difference if its training or racing, a track is a track (even a temporary track) and you are not covered.

"When you are not insured (The Use of Your Bike)
5.4.3 being used:
i on a race track, speedway track or rider training or
instruction course;
ii for rider training or rider instruction on a race track,
speedway track or any other type of course or facility unless
the course is approved under section 3.10 Rider Training (provider approved suppliers);
iii in preparation for a race, time-trial, hill-climb or any other
competitive motor sport or contest;
iv in a rally or event where the road was closed to public traffic;

For example, there is NO insurance when you use your bike on a
race track, speedway track or rider training course for any reason."

[TheRan]

trials, implies racing. 

Sure, but it's not just trials. They just say that to cover competition (or training) use on an off-road course. One could argue that a bunch of logs and rocks in the woods isn't a track, so they're making sure it counts.

Taking a track day to learn safe riding is not a track day just for fun and to go fast, one could argue.  What about taking a motorcycle safety course?  Technically one could say that is a 'track day' as well and exclude you.  The Yamaha champ school, actually has a safe rider course I believe that they do on the track.  The track is a natural place to do this kind of  learning because it's set up for it really.

I'm not sure if we have safety training courses on tracks here in the UK (of course there are racing training courses). It's more likely to be car parks or other similarly large paved areas, or out on the road.

TheRan, private land should have nothing to do with it.  Say I slam into you in a parking lot at the wally world store.  that's private, but you are also covered.

I meant privately accessible, not privately owned but publicly accessible. For example I have a large field where I work and the assumption is that if I was to go tearing about on that and had an accident my insurance probably wouldn't cover me. However I didn't find any mention in my policy about whether I'm only covered on the road (and car parks).

[Specter]

You should be covered on private land.  If you are tearing it up, it may be a one stop shop and drop, in other words they'll cover you that one time and then you are done, they cancel your policy if you file a claim because you dropped it while cuttin it up.  But this all begs, we ALL know what happens when we file claims, especially if it is for stupid shit we did that caused the loss!!  Would you really want to, unless it was a total loss.  in the case of an E bike, umm yanh for 35k I think i'd take that chance.  That's one thing I am admant about with insurance, i want REPLACEMENT not bluebook, because they'll devalue the hell out of you and you are screwed, and if they get shitty you can get a lawyer and as soon as the lawyer starts pushing on them  well it was 3 years old, had 18k miles on it, grey paint, xx wheels, YOU need to replace that EXACT SAME BIKE !!  they tend to stop being so douchy.  I went thru that with a claim on my car once many years ago with State Farm Fraud insurance.  They tried every way to sunday to not honor it until I got a lawyer, suddenly, oh I can get a newer one in better shape, because it'd be cheaper for them, than to find an EXACT replacement for me.

I may have to borrow a phone and call them, pretending to be someone looking for a policy and word this question and see what they say.  Im sure each ins is different but I am genuinely curious.  If i dump the bike on the track, yah, that's on me, but what if I get hit on the track, or an accident that was not directly my fault? 

You know, this makes me wonder something else.  When you go on the track, you sign a waiver saying they are NOT responsible for ANYTHING that goes wrong, you are absolutely on your own.  But what about YOU?  What if you hit someone on the track, can they sue you?  or what if someone hits or wrecks your bike, can you go after their insurance or them?  It'd be a real shitty thing to do, and I'd never do it, but is it possible? is it something one might have to look out for?  Im almost ashamed to be asking this, but America is not the country it used to be, people are sue crazy looking for any gimme dat they can find.    Im going to have to re read that waiver again, im curious now.

Aaron

[CagivaRider]

The one time damage to my road racer was covered by insurance was when the bike trailer rolled over. My bike was still registered as a street bike because I bought it for production racing AND was financing it (insurance required).

My race bikes were crashed out by competitors more than once. It was not expected the other guy would pay for bike parts or my medical bills.

The waivers we signed were considered worth about as much as the ink they were printed with. They stood as reminders we weren't playing games. Unfortunately during the period I was directly in charge of running the races in the Pacific Northwest we had multiple fatalities. None led to lawsuits because their families knew the racers understood the danger in our sport. Our rider-safety gear was far below current gear. It's safer now, but still dangerous.

[Specter]

Thank you for that input CagivaRider.

Yes, it's dangerous and people need constant reminders.  You go on a track day and see the kids show up and start doing stupid shit, you just shake your head, because you can pretty much tell which ones are going to be down and out probably before noon.  When they are bragging about dragging their entire leg on the track, and racing each other around the corners, you shake your head and say; "please don't, that's going to get you killed"...ok boomer, grin chuckle... you just pray they don't kill themselves, unfortunately I have plenty of footage of the life flight taking off.

Agreed, it's expected that you are on your own repair and medical wise, Street racing is a different beast, but still, I try to show some chivalry still.  Luckily the group I roll with, won't tolerate ignorance that much, you start being stupid, you are asked to 'Not do that", if it continues, you are asked to leave, you show your ass, some of the others  around you, may show you their badges and tell you to leave.  If you decide to escalate it at that point...well, that's on you too.

All that aside, whether an informal road racing or a sanctioned track day, damage WILL happen, it's just the nature of the sport.  Insurance helping pay would be nice, but at what cost does it come?  In the case of a trailer roll over, I think that would be covered no matter what, even with your regular car insurance in some instances, it's more a collateral damage off the primary vehicle, the one towing not the bike itself.

Paying 20k for a bike is chump change for an insurance company .vs. 200k for a life flight then another half million for initial care / emergency surgery.  Now lets throw in all the other funzies.  You might get a one and done. Here' go get a new bike...and a new company, we are dropping you as well.

I had a claim on my bike for animal damage, luckily it didn't wreck my premiums.

Aaron