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[triangletom]

I've been trying to install Skene P3 lights successfully on my Energica Experia for the last week. I'm not using the turn signal integration, so it should just be a straight 3-wire posi-tap to the brake light. I don't know of any wiring diagrams for the bike, so I just brute-forced my way into guessing which wires are which:



- 12V: Brake Light - White/Orange
- Brake Signal: Brake light - Yellow/Red
- Ground: Brake light - Black???

However, my Skene lights don't come on at all in that configuration. If I move the ground to the license plate light instead, the lights come on for a moment, and then error out with B1001 when the lights go to full brightness.

The same behavior also occurs if I move the 12V to the tail license plate light, so that my wiring looks like:
- 12V: License Plate Light - Brown
- Brake Signal: Brake light - Yellow/Red
- Ground: License Plate light -Blue

 I suspect I'm drawing too much current, but I have no idea what the current limits are that the Experia applies to each system either. I've not run into problems installing these on other (BMW) bikes so far. The tech specs for the P3 lights are:

• Current draw: tail light 100 mA;  brake light 390 mA instantaneous, 150 mA continuous
• Operating voltage: 9 - 16 VDC
• Maximum allowed current: 3 amps for P3, 6 amps (3 per side left & right) for P3-TS (equivalent to 40 of our LED modules)

I'm kind of out of ideas here, other than running a wire from the front somewhere, maybe via the TE AMP Superseal connectors. Any tips or help are welcome!

 

[Specter]

One thing you need to keep in mind is that the BMS monitors current to detect faults and shut things down.  It's all controlled in it's chip brain.  Turning on and off lights is not as simple as just opening and closing a switch, like you essentially are doing there, or trying to do with your add on.  The signal is basically a pulse down a wire, telling the brain, hey, turn on power to 'this' thing here, at which point it monitors it and if current goes out of certain boundaries it throws faults and may disable the circuit to prevent damage.  So you go from regular to bright lights, it sends a pulse down the wire, the bms sees the momentary 'High' on logic line XXX' and switches current to the 'bright bulbs'.  Granted this is a gross over simplification but gets the point across.
This is why on many newer bikes to be honest, these 'just piggybacks' off the existing brake system, does not always work correctly. 

There IS a schematic out there somewhere I seen it posted of power to signals, I can't remember where I seen it posted in here and im too stupid to figure out exactly which word to search on to find it again    Maybe one of the Energica guru's can chime in and help?

Aaron

[Demoni]

The tail/brake light uses a 3 pin JST JWPF connector to plug into the bikes main harness. The connector should be marked with pin locations 1-3, also the wires on the bike side will have micro printing indicating this.
Pin 1 - 12V for tail light
Pin 2 - 12V for brake light
Pin 3 - Ground

The bikes VCU constantly monitors the current draw of each lighting circuit and will show a open circuit fault if the circuit is not drawing enough power and a closed circuit fault if it is drawing too much. If a closed circuit fault is detected the bike will stop providing power to that circuit to protect the wires from a potential short circuit, the bike needs to be power cycled to reset this. The tail light only pulls ~30mA and the brake light ~45mA. The P3 looks like it pulls 390mA which would 100% cause the bike to fault.

It looks like the P3 comes with a controller circuit which accepts an external 12v source to provide power for the lights. There are 2 aux power connectors under the right fairing that you can use for this. The owners manual does a good job of showing how to access these. You will need a standard 2 pin TE amp connector to plug into the harness. You can use the brake/tail light wires as triggers for this unit.

[triangletom]

It looks like the P3 comes with a controller circuit which accepts an external 12v source to provide power for the lights. There are 2 aux power connectors under the right fairing that you can use for this. The owners manual does a good job of showing how to access these. You will need a standard 2 pin TE amp connector to plug into the harness. You can use the brake/tail light wires as triggers for this unit.

Thank you for the detailed response!

I've hooked my front Skene lights + Warm & Safe Heated Gear connection via the TE amp connectors mentioned in the manual. The only quirk I've noticed is that the front Skene lights turn on while the bike is charging, which is somewhat annoying with their subtle "conspicuity" flicker. I have not yet tried swapping the TE connectors to see if both share the same behavior, but ideally I don't want to have the rear lights flickering while the bike charges.

I also noticed a couple of other unused connectors near the fuse, labeled 12V GPS and 12V Telesomething. Do you happen to know if these are powered up, and if so, what kind of connectors I might need to buy to use them? I haven't seen them mentioned elsewhere.

[Specter]

If you go into your settings, I believe there is a setting to turn on / turn off your lights while charging.  Might want to set that to off and see if it helps any.

Aaron

[triangletom]

Small update:

I retapped the brake line farther up, near the JST JWPF connector, and it happily found the ground. The Skene P3 lights work great until I hold on to the brake lever for a few seconds, long enough for them to turn solid after flashing, and then they short out. I think @Demoni is right that they are drawing more amps than the bike will allow, which is not a problem on other bikes I've installed this kit onto.

My new plan is to try wiring 12V+Ground into one of the two free JST JWPF connectors up front near the fuse box, either GPS 12V or TELECAM 12V. If that fails, I'll use one of the TE AMP connectors.



@Specter - Thanks for the tip about the setting. I confirmed that it's off. It appears that at least one of the TE AMP connectors stays on while charging, separately from the lights.

[Specter]

It may not be a problem on other bikes you worked on, because they are not designed and built like the Energica is, where it IS a problem.  Without getting into too much detail   of, why they monitor everything's current, suffice to say, the bike will shut down anything in a heartbeat or 2 if it thinks it's an electric problem.  Remember, the 12 volt is being provided by a module, unlike other bikes where it's probably an alternator / battery.  This makes the source much more sensitive and prone to damage under fault conditions.  Loss of 12 volts pretty much bricks the bike, would not be a good thing doing 70 mph, hitting a puddle of water, shorting out the lights and your bike shuts off, instead it just faults the lights, removes them from play, and keeps on going.

Get usb powered lights and plug them and use

Aaron

[triangletom]

You know, that kind of makes sense.

In the end, I wired both the front and rear Skene lights into one of the TE AMP accessory cables up front. The 12V TELECAM & GPS cables didn't appear to be active. The only downside is that the bike now has bright orange & red flickering lights while the bike is charging, which is OK for now, but it might suck if charging at a campsite overnight.
 
If it becomes a problem, I'll add a switch to the 12V line.

Once I get the bike buttoned up, I'll post a Youtube video so you can see how absurdly conspicuous these lights are in their default configuration.

[Specter]

Isn't there 12 volt available for the heated hand grips too?  Won't be on unless the bike is on, or activated or whatever?/??  not sure but worth a look at maybe.

aaron

[triangletom]

All the accessory ports on the Experia (TE AMP and USB ports) appear to come alive while the bike is charging, even the socket I'm using for heated gear. I get the reasoning, but the use case of abusing them to power extra lights makes the feature a bit of a nuisance. I'll be curious to see what other folks do for extra lighting on this bike.

Other than that, I'm very happy with the outcome. It had no problems in the rain today; tomorrow, I'll give it a more comprehensive test over a 4-hour ride.