Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[erensi]

Hello all, I figure someone will have expertise on this issue I'm dealing with.  I have a 2016 Zero SR 14.4 with power tank that I bought used in 2021 and keep covered outside of my residence.  I have a standard 125V outlet outside my garage that I've been using to charge the bike.  For the last several months I've been regularly running the bike down to about 20-30% and charging overnight.  In order to reach where I park it, I use a 50ft heavy duty (14 AWG) extension cord before connecting to the NEMA 5-15P to IEC-60320 C13 with appropriate  C13 jack for connecting to the bike.   I have gone through a few of this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AK9T6JG, as well as some others I bought online.   They are all 14 awg so they should have no problem with the ~1000W or so that goes through them for 6-9 hours at a time.  For some reason they only seem to last one or two months before the C13 connector starts burning up.   I recently looked at the 50' extension cable and it appears to have some charring on it as well now, and this took about a year.

I have a couple of questions.  First, is this normal?  Should I expect cable connections to degrade like this when charging 2-3 times per week?  I see no charing at the outlet itself.  Only at the extension joint and on the C13 plug where it connects to the bike.  I have cleaned the connection with contact cleaner thinking that would help, but it doesn't. 

Second question is about if this is normal wear and tear.  If connector degradation is to be expected, can I minimize the amount of wasted material by just replacing the connectors?  I'd hate to throw away 50ft of good 14awg cable just because a connector is bad.   If so, would it make sense to cut the existing burnt out (female) connector on the extension cord and attach a new one?  If so, how might I go about doing it so that the connection is super robust?  The cable itself seems to be ok.  It's only the connections that burn up.   What are some beefy 5-15P connectors that can handle this kind of use?  What kind of solder would I want to use, etc?  I have some experience with electronics but not a ton.

I will post a follow-up message with some photos from my phone.

[erensi]

Here are a few C13 cables I've gone through
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pQSTCBjtwWD6ahrA7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qCJarfjaYM3AkKtUA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UdkxbrE5889GQ5Aw7

Here is the male end of the extension cable.  It is sealed but you can see the charred connection in there.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yfP1cj8DSSVy5zWx9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qMb8qB3YQEHwifYU6

I hope these photo links work.

[Specter]

Don't be cheap, don't get stuff that barely handles the rating, only to keep replacing every few times.

Yes it is supposedly rated for 15 amps BUT that is if everything is perfect.
Running for 8 hours straight is tearing the hell out of them too.

Get some good 12 ga extension cord. only as long as you need it.  If you can get away with a 25 foot, then use it instead of a 50 foot.  Personally Id run 10 but thats just me.

Also if you burnt the thing up a few times your plug is shot too, replace the receptacle as well and you should be good to go.

Aaron

EDIT:  If you  burnt up both sides of it, Id venture you boogered up the plug where you plug it into the charger as well.  The heat will travel down the connectors and melt BOTH sides of it, the extension cord side, and the plug / plugin side as well.

Try to clean everything up as best as you can, make sure the connections are tight, and if you have to, turn the amps down a few.  Plug it in, and check it every half hour for ahout 4 hours.  That'll tell you if it's going to continue giving you problems or not.  If it's really hot, turn the amps down a few.  I have a feeling though that if you went thru several cords... and the one looks like the cord that plugs into the actual charger, then you got issues on the chargers plug as well that will need to be addressed

[MVetter]

All-too-familiar story. Even if you buy "heavy duty" wire they still put the standard gauge ends on them so they slowly burn up. I believe there's a term for extension cords with heavy duty connectors but I don't recall what. You can easily repurpose the wire with new ends; I'm sure there are plenty of youtube tutorials to walk one through it.

The easy way to tell if your wire is beefy enough is to let it charge for an hour and then pick up the extension cord with your hands. Is it warm? If so it's underspecced and you might as well just get something super beefy like 10 gauge so you don't have to think about it.

edit- Aaron got here first and he's a trained electrician so do what he suggests and you'll be fine.

[Specter]

Can you take a picture of where it plugs into the charger so i can see what plug looks like?   The more I think on that, the more I am getting a real uneazy queazy about the condition of the plug and wires inside your charger if you put that much heat into it already.  I really don't want to see you starting the thing on fire.

Aaron

[MVetter]

Gen 2 Zero bikes have a C13 inlet on the left side around the rider's thigh. It has two tiny annoying little allen screws holding the inlet in place, but the cable from the C13 to the Calex (onboard charger) is sufficiently rated.

[erensi]

Can you take a picture of where it plugs into the charger so i can see what plug looks like?   The more I think on that, the more I am getting a real uneazy queazy about the condition of the plug and wires inside your charger if you put that much heat into it already.  I really don't want to see you starting the thing on fire.

Aaron

https://photos.app.goo.gl/U2aKnkrDmrQUqFwv9

The bike's C13 plug is not connected on its normal place on the bike frame.  It was like that when I bought it.  I tried reattaching it a while back but I recall it it was so compact in there that I found it difficult to maneuver it into place where it wouldn't be physically stressing the cable.

Efrem

[erensi]

Also forgot to mention I was wrong about the extension cable.  It's actually 25 feet.

[TheRan]

Unfortunately the C13/14 connector is only actually rated to 10A, I've never understood how it's apparently 15A on 110/120V. You might have more luck with a C15 cable which although is still only rated to 10A it can also take 120°C temps instead of 70°C, although you still have the issue of the connector on the bike unless you want to get a C16 and replace it with that. If you wanted to do it right then go with something like C19/20 although the connector will be too big to fit the hole in the frame so you'd have it dangling free unless you find somewhere else to mount it, maybe something like this.

[mdjak1]

Back when I owned an FXS and a gen 2 SR, I recall hearing that you should ALWAYS plug the charging cable into the bike FIRST, then plug the cable into the wall outlet.   That way any arc is at the wall plug and not the motorcycle's plug.   And when you are done charging, unplug the wall outlet first and then unplug the bike.   Again to avoid arcing at the motorcycle plug.   You should also be sure the contacts are clean of any dirt or dust.

[TheRan]

I always plug the bike in last, however being in the UK all our outlets are switched so I turn that on last and even if I forget it's half the current at 230V. I'm assuming switched American outlets are a thing so could be worth installing one.

[Richard230]

Back when I owned an FXS and a gen 2 SR, I recall hearing that you should ALWAYS plug the charging cable into the bike FIRST, then plug the cable into the wall outlet.   That way any arc is at the wall plug and not the motorcycle's plug.   And when you are done charging, unplug the wall outlet first and then unplug the bike.   Again to avoid arcing at the motorcycle plug.   You should also be sure the contacts are clean of any dirt or dust.

That is what I have been doing with my 3 Zeros over the past 12 years and have never had a problem.    BTW, I typically see 125V at my wall outlet when unloaded, which drops to 118V when my Zero is charging at its maximum of 13 amps.

[ESokoloff]

Get rid of ALL crimped electrical connections including the C14 socket on the bike.
Use screwed down or better yet screwed clamped connections (after removing sufficient end wire to get rid of heat damage).
Carefully clean the individual copper strands with Scotchbrite (tm) to insure the best connection.

Before I did the above I went through many cords (avg 12k miles/yr).
More info here…. (Note that this was 4 yrs & 40k miles ago & no issues (compared to the multiple issues for the previous 50k miles so it worked for me).
https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=10514.0

[Specter]

That plug on the bike took a hit.  See that yellow ish,  crunchy  powdery look on it?  That's corrosion / oxidation mostlikely brought about by the heat of burning / melting the plug.  That right there is going to cause you a ton of trouble, it is going to literally be a hot spot every time you pass current thru it.  That grunge is going to be resistance and just heat up.  If you can get some contact cleaner you might be able to clean it up some, but BE CAREFUL !!  Spray a bit on a piece of paper towel first and then rub the plastic shell around the plug prongs to make sure the cleaner is not going to melt / eat your plastic housing.    Better yet,  get a stainless pick / wire / or razor blade, or teeny dremmel if you got a 2m / 3m type station head for it, and clean that  grunge off, then contact clean it.

If  you feel comfortable doing a little soldering, id just replace that entire plug,  you can cut the wires and put a new one one, and just solder the wires inline then slide a bit of heat shrink over em and seal it down.  That'd be your best way to do it.

Aaron

[gt13013]

You can also use a 110V to 220V transformer, since the Zero can be charged with 220 V.
By doubling the voltage, you will divide the current in the cable by a factor 2, and the heat dissipated in the cable by a factor 4.
Of course it is not transportable, but if you charge most of the time from an outlet in your garage, the transformer can stay in the garage.