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[DonTom]

See here.

[flynnstig82r]

Bennett’s did a 1,500 mile review of the Z7 Hybrid, and the results were honestly pretty shocking: https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/long-term-test-bikes/kawasaki-long-term-test-bikes/z7-hybrid-2024-review

I was already critical of the Kawasaki hybrid bikes based on info from the initial announcements and ride tests from clueless journalists, but this review really puts the nail in the coffin. I can’t believe that Team Green would release a product that fails on every single level like this:

• The first thing that stands out to me is the gas mileage, which is somehow worse than the gas-only Z500 with the same ICE engine. Unbelievable! That was supposed to be the selling point, guys!
• If you’re going to use an automatic gearbox, make the gear changes quick and smooth. This one is clunky and selects too high of a gear (but somehow still gets worse MPG than the non-hybrid).
• Throttle has to be fully closed to downshift. I mean really, what the hell? My 17 year old FJR’s auto-clutch can downshift with open throttle, and that’s Stone Age tech compared to something like Honda’s DCT.
• Gear changes in EV mode, seriously? Stop trying to be a Brammo Empulse! That bike was cool.
• When Kawi said it pulled like a 1,000cc off the line with the stupid e-boost button engaged, I was almost ready to believe them. But the proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is 0-60 in 4.3s. My FZ6R could do that, and it wasn’t exactly a performance bike. What a joke.
• Lengthening a bike’s wheelbase to shove in an electric powertrain is the dumbest way to make room, and they clearly didn’t think through the implications on handling (or aesthetics).
• I won’t even mention the false neutrals and the resulting recall, because recalls can happen with any bike.

I believe hybrid bikes have a lot of potential, which is why I’m so incensed by this half-assed insult to motorized transport. This was an unforced error. There was no market pressure to release a hybrid as a commercial product. They could have shown off a concept bike to hone their skills and gauge interest, but instead they demonstrated that they don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground in the emerging electric space. They’ve also potentially poisoned the well for hybrids and electrics in general, because other OEMs will see the poor sales, and we all might be robbed of the chance to buy a properly-executed hybrid. To paraphrase comedian Mike Birbiglia, what you should have done was nothing.

[Richard230]

Maybe the Kawasaki engineers were pressured by upper management to produce a hybrid motorcycle and they designed it so that it wouldn't sell in the hopes of not having to do that project again. 

[flynnstig82r]

Maybe so. It reminds me of how my dad inadvertently got out of laundry duty early in his first marriage. He mixed the white shirts with the red shirts and everything came out pink.

[princec]

The whole project was a facepalm from beginning to end. Hybrid technology is already dead in the water. It's going to be banned in the EU from 2035 anyway - a mere 10 years away - and this has been known for at least 5 years, which would make attempting to develop it for the extremely niche motorcycle market an insane waste of money.

Battery tech has won, and it's here to stay, and yet they waste their time on this pointless crap that solves nothing (and fails at the one single thing it could have solved which would have been fuel economy*). Instead the manufacturers wring their hands and make whiny noises about the technology not being "there" yet, while we waft around on Zeros, Energicas, and LiveWires wondering wtf they're talking about.

Cas

* Ever wondered why turbocharging never caught on in motorcycles? Because to make motorcycles insanely fast you just make the engine a bit bigger or rev a bit harder. The last 20 years of motorcycle development hasn't made them any faster in the real world.

[flynnstig82r]

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Battery density is still quite low, and the current state of charging is not to anyone’s satisfaction. The truth is that you still can’t buy a no-compromises e-moto at any price, much less one that’s price-competitive with gas bikes. The Experia is a great bike and represents the closest thing, IMO, but when you start comparing it against a similarly-priced Ducati Multistrada, you have to really desire electric to choose the Energica. A hybrid could have the range and refueling of gas with the instant torque and quiet operation of electric, and with the heaviest and most expensive component (the battery) shrunk to 1/4 its size on a pure EM. The gas motor could effectively be a generator that also helps out at high speeds when the electric gets above its efficient zone for its winding. I don’t see why 100 MPG wouldn’t be achievable when a NC750X gets 65-80 MPG without any hybrid tech.

[princec]

...and still push the planet a few hours closer to unhabitable. Oil is the death of mankind. We are fucked if we keep using it. Hybrid is a clever way to keep using it, at almost exactly the same rate, while pretending we aren't.

My Zero is perfect for 95% of the mileage I do in a year. The other 5% is me waiting at a 22kW AC charger (charging at just 11kW), and to be honest, that's a few times a year. I know it's a bit inconvenient for those two days a year I have to charge while I'm about, but you know what, that's the only actual technical problem with the bike. It could probably get 20kW of AC charging into it with currently available tech, and that'd bring charging time down to actually less time than I want to rest for. I wish the press and chattering classes would stop blathering on about how the "range and infrastructure aren't there". The range is there nearly any time I need it. The infrastructure is there. The weight is almost exactly the same. The price sucks by a factor of 2, but what price clean air and divesting ourselves from Big Oil?

The thing about hybrids is that once you're out of the zone where the electric motor does its work - under 30mph - you're just left with a petrol engine doing normal petrol engine things. It won't be any more efficient at 70mph. An NC750X would still do 65mpg on average, unless it spent its entire time in the city centre.

Cas

[Fran K]

So I stopped by to see these bikes.  There are two one has sort of normal handlebar and the other has sort of clip on stub handlebars that attach to raised pockets in the top clamp.  There is currently a promotion but there is a recall.  The two bikes are back in an unheated portion of the shop with tags on the hndlebars saying do not sell recall.  They were 2024 models and marked $12500 if I recall.  I see one on cycle trader also a 24 model for 1000 less after figuring in the $1500 incentive in.  They say the next ones in will be 2025.  Guy did not know about the regen but says i should be able to download the owners manual.  They told me over the phone they had two in that were sold and would get more.  I have my doubts if the two bikes were sold and waiting on recall or not.  There is an oil filter right in front down low and in the center if one wanted to try a trail or something along those lines.

Added the next day.

It costs like $18 to download the owners manual and like $200 for the workshop manual.  However, I can view the manual two pages at a time for no cost, even jump arounnd.  No copy to paste elsewhere.  Best as I can tell there is no regen function, nothing about regen where I would expect it.  The transmission is what I consider close ratio maybe 2.3 times first vs sixth. Wide ratio to me is 3.5 or so.  I know it is an electric forum but the ignition advance is 61 degrees at 7000 rpm and 5 degrees at 1300 rpm which is not what I was expecting.  They don't seem to have the rider downshifting to slow down in the how to ride section so no regen would seem to follow.

[Fran K]

So, I got one of these.  The one with the handlebars not raised clip on's.  12k sales tax and the additional 3-year warranty that covers what the origional one covers for a year.  I was wrong above.  It does do regenerative function in EV mode and going downhill.  There are plenty of videeos of guys who review lots of motorcycles that get a day or so with one.  I only did a 10-mile loop, and my fingers were cold halfway through it.  Have yet to do sport mode.  It is quite frustrating trying to figure out how to make it go, I just did eco mode and EV mode.  6 speed automatic shift or 4 speeds (gear ratios) in EV.  Really rough shifitng like it cuts power for an instant.  It seems that I can make smooth shifts in manual transmission mode up shift anyway.  Not real courageous about down shifts yet.  In gasoline mode it becomes wind noise only at around 45mph (flat steady) and wind only in EV mode even less speed.  My KTM makes some motor noise that the wind does not mask at least as fast as I have gone (sillly me I put the rim locks in for the street tires and with the changed gearing I did 55mph is about the limit for the wheel imbalance.  In the hybrid eco mode if I gently twist the throtle it is battery up until 10 mph or so and then from 10 to 15 or 20 both the engine and the battery are pushing, the engine doing what would be considered lugging.  If it twists kind of much the engine started maybe at 3mph.  I found the parts sheets online quite easily.  It does have neutral so pushing it is pretty easy.  It sure looks like made in Thailand.  The sticker ( not a metal plate riveted on) is kind on the back of the steering tube of the frame.  Like the tube is attached at the top and bottom leaving space for the info, I could see perhaps 5 letters after made in.

[Fran K]

I guess I should bump this thread.  They sold me an extended warranty with Riders advantage.  I thought the 12k out the door price with 4 year warranty would be with Kawasaki.  Hard to remember exactly what was said when via phone before going there or actually there.  Kind of feel like bait and switch, Rider advantage could close for all I know.  The guy at the dealerhip says a good bit cheaper than through Kawasaki, road side assistance get a flat and call..... but I thought we had a price with the kawasaki extended warranty.  Not even sure if Kawasaki has such at this time.

Maybe there will be a Kawasiki electric section.  Sure can drain the battery going uphill in electric mode.  The walk mode goes to neutral it seems not like my battery ktm.

There was one on ebay for around 8k supposedly no fees.

Could also add in my reading Kawasaki has partnered with a Polish firm for the battery on this offering.  Strangely the Batteries for my Husqvarna string trimmer, chainsaw, blower, and pole saw are make in Poland.  Wonder if it is the same company.

fran

[DynoMutt]

..ed: In the Continental USA..

Dealerships are now willing to do deals at around 50% MSRP and possibly a bit lower depending on the area of the country.

They need to get these off of their floorplans for the 2026's

I'd expect more in the Northeast and CA and a bunch less in redder areas.

They have loads of features and functionality, but the emphasis is on near-term performance boosts rather than fuel economy.  The 2cyl 450ish CC motor is surprisingly smooth compared to my old 650 onebanger.

Search ..ed: on YouTube.. for "Bikes and Beards Kawasaki Hybrid" for commentary on the current pricing situation.  He got a sub-5k deal in Arkansas, apparently.

[Specter]

ive been looking for an ice in about that range to play around on, and possibly get into racing with since nobody it seems wants to allow electric bikes on the raceway, maybe one of these might work, but i could still see the bullshit, well it's not 'really' a 450 cc so you can't ride in this group and more games to disqualify it like they do with the energica's because they don't want to compete against them IMO.

Still, the price does not seem too bad, maybe ill look around and see what's available around here.  Sometimes you want to have a little fun but don't want to wrestle a 600 lb bike around the track all day.  This might be a ticket to do so.

Aaron

[DynoMutt]

Alas, wet, it's a 500lb bike, be aware.

[Specter]

oh.. and that little CC, ouch!  yah no thanks for an extra 50 pounds get what, an extra 100 horse with a spiffed up ego?

didn't realize it was THAT heavy.  what are they going for with that kind of weight, that's like holy shit wow, a 100 percent electric bike would kick the living shit out of that with a few more pounds, and an ice at around that weight will push you 230 mph... which demographic are they aiming at, just wow.

[Richard230]

oh.. and that little CC, ouch!  yah no thanks for an extra 50 pounds get what, an extra 100 horse with a spiffed up ego?

didn't realize it was THAT heavy.  what are they going for with that kind of weight, that's like holy shit wow, a 100 percent electric bike would kick the living shit out of that with a few more pounds, and an ice at around that weight will push you 230 mph... which demographic are they aiming at, just wow.

What they are aiming at is a pat on the back from some countries' politicians.  I don't think motorcycle enthusiasts were really on their radar.