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[domingo3]

I ride about 20k miles a year.  If I'm reading things correctly, Energica uses LiPo and Zero uses Li Ion. I've also read that Li Ion batteries will last longer in general, but that wasn't a direct comparison between the specific chemistries used in these packs or give any quantitative values.

I've read on here a suggestion that Energica's shorter battery warranty reflects a shorter expected lifespan.

Can anyone confirm or deny my current assumption that I could expect to get a lot more miles on a Zero before significant battery degradation?

[JaimeC]

It all depends on way too many factors to make a single recommendation, I suspect.  Maybe Morgan Vetter can chime in here as he's pretty knowledgeable on these things.

[MVetter]

I've read on here a suggestion that Energica's shorter battery warranty reflects a shorter expected lifespan.

That is 100% pure fanboy speculation. Energica also offers an extended 5 year battery warranty these days.

The real answer is that both packs use very high-performance good quality cells, and both should last many years if taken care of properly. Right now there's just more data on Zero bikes because they've been out longer and there are more of them on the road. So there are more Zero owners with 50k+ bikes than Energica owners. I've got a 2018 Energica with over 40,000 miles on it and it seems to have about the same range/performance it did when I bought it. But I am also hyper aware of keeping my pack in an optimal state of charge.

Bottom line is I wouldn't go into a purchase with this being the main concern. I would weigh out the features of the bikes and see which one fits you more. And test rides.

[Stonewolf]

I've put about 11k on mine and not noticed any battery degradation over that time.

Energica quote 80% after 1200 cycles for Ribelle so if you want to have 80% left after 60k miles (3 years) your average cycle would need to be 50 miles which is pretty pessimistic unless you're doing a huge amount of motorway riding. I couldn't find a similar metric for Zero, they just say "over 200,000 miles" which is, as I have come to expect from Zero, disingenuous. 200,000 miles at what kind of load? city riding? highway riding? If you stayed in the city with a Ribelle 1200 cycles might well be 200,000 miles but half that is a much more reasonable expectation for less focused use.

[domingo3]

Thank you. I didn't put much credence in the speculation about the warranty, which is why I asked here.  I have been leaning towards the Energica SS9, but for concerns about battery life. The 5-year warranty extension doesn't do a lot for my situation because I'd exceed the 47k milage cap in about two and a half years. Zero's warranty would be more or less double the time and distance and I would have the possibility of getting a new battery when I'm nearing 100k miles if the battery starts showing degradation. I've seen some people post about getting warranty battery replacement close to the 5 year mark, but also realize that's a very small minority. It's good to hear you've got over 40k miles on your Energica, but I don't think I can be as hyper aware as you about optimal SOC because I envision charging to 100% to start my 90 mile round trip commute on the freeway and getting back home at a low state of charge.

I've read on here a suggestion that Energica's shorter battery warranty reflects a shorter expected lifespan.

That is 100% pure fanboy speculation. Energica also offers an extended 5 year battery warranty these days.

The real answer is that both packs use very high-performance good quality cells, and both should last many years if taken care of properly. Right now there's just more data on Zero bikes because they've been out longer and there are more of them on the road. So there are more Zero owners with 50k+ bikes than Energica owners. I've got a 2018 Energica with over 40,000 miles on it and it seems to have about the same range/performance it did when I bought it. But I am also hyper aware of keeping my pack in an optimal state of charge.

Bottom line is I wouldn't go into a purchase with this being the main concern. I would weigh out the features of the bikes and see which one fits you more. And test rides.

[Specter]

This is one way to look at it.

My energica, even when I am riding like a total moron, I can get 100 miles EASY per charge.  That's just riding stupid fast and i still squeak out 100 miles from the battery.

Now... it's guaranteed for what 1200 cycles you said?

so, id have to run the bike 120, 000 miles to get the battery down that far.

Are you going to ride your bike 120 k miles to have to worry about a warranty?

Also another thing many people tend to forget about.
lithium cells, a 'cycle' is one FULL cycle,  not just an up and down.  let me try to explain.

NiMh, and the other popular ones.

Battery at 100 percent,  you take it to 70 percent and charge it,  that is a cycle
Battery at 100 percent and you take it to 50 percent and charge it,  that is a cycle
battery at 100 percent and you take it to 94 percent and charge it.  that is a cycle.

Lithium.

Battery at 100 percent you take it to 70 percent and charge it to 100.  that is  0.3 cycles.
Battery at 100 percent you take it to 50 percent and charge it to 100.  that is  0.5 cycles.. added to the above, you cycled that battery 0.8 cycles so far.  NOT TWO CYCLES as many of the other chemistries would act on that.

Also, the numbers they give are pretty much worse use case,  100 percent dod.   80 percent dod.   if you cycle it with less of a span, they last even LONGER.   you may get 1200 cycles at 100 dod,     that could be 1800 at 80 percent dod,    or 3000 at 50 percent dod.

Much of that is on the specific chemistry, the quality of the materials,bla bla bla.  but the takeaway from this.
You'd have to molest that battery pretty darned hard to really put a crunch on it's capacity.

Aaron

[jotjotde]

Aaron, you just created a new insult for EV riders. 

BATTERY MOLESTER

[princec]

Your real problem with the Zero is the fact it doesn't go at all when it gets wet... 

Cas

[jotjotde]

From my own experience: Battery warranty is worth NOTHING when companies like Zero are not willing to act on it.
The battery of my Zero SR/F was faulty and they were not able to supply a new one in 2 months, so I gave back the bike. In a German forum I read about one Zero owner who waited well over 6 months for Zero to deliver a new battery.

[domingo3]

Aaron, I take no offense at being called a battery molester. I fully intend to ride well over 120k miles, with most of it at high speed and pushing the limits of the battery capacity, at least if the bike lives up to it.

Cas, my experience has been different. In 7 years riding a Zero year round in all weather, I only had an issue one time. I accidentally rode through water that was nearly up to my knees while going 30 mph or so. The torrential downpour continued for another 30 miles at 70 mph. Then it had some momentary cut outs then started again. After another 10 miles, it finally stopped. Pressing the button to reset

[Specter]

I did something similar to my saturn once, was going thru water, next thing  I know it's half up the doors if I stop and im pushing a wake.  Those are the moments where you just gotta keep going.  If I stop, the wake stops, and the water half up the door comes in, car totalled.  If I keep going I may make it out with minimal damage and not have to wade the rest of the way out to add insult to injury.  I ended up making it thru and about a minute later the dash lit up with a bunch of warnings.  Had to wait for some stuff to dry out and it actually caused a card to go bad, and an electronic card caused the transmission to do something to damage itself, (what a crock of crap !!)  I played stupid and they covered it under warranty luckily!

Never in a million years did I expect the water on that corner to be 2 feet deep !!  turns out part of the road washed out and sank, we found out after it dried up.

vehicles just don't like water, no matter what chemistry they are !!

Aaron

[princec]

In all fairness, the problem is with the gen 3 Zeros, not the Gen 2 ones. And it's acknowledged to be a problem by Zero themselves, too, which is why they're quietly replacing all the parts of bikes that are affected when they break down with waterproof ones. Apparently. We'll see.

Cas

[Specter]

For all practical purposes, any bike manu, should make their bike,with the intent that the thing is going to get submersed.  All it takes is one good puddle, or down pour you get caught in, and wind and spray and splash and water coming UP from the wheels and being flung with force, or an errant hose sweep cleaning etc, it WILL get in everywhere eventually that is not totally sealed off.

Aaron